Author: Elise Kindya

  • Getting Clear On Your Empathic Gifts with Chelsie Skowyra

    Getting Clear On Your Empathic Gifts with Chelsie Skowyra

    In this episode of Returning Home: The Podcast, I interview Chelsie Skowyra, Spiritual Mentor. Chelsie is a former mental health therapist until her spiritual awakening sent her on a journey of integrating psychology with spirituality. She now works as a spiritual mentor offering transformational services such as teaching others how to be spiritual mentors, reiki healings, and hosting self-care retreats. In this episode, you will hear Chelsie’s path to finding herself in her purpose, tools she offers to her clients in healing sessions, and OF COURSE a Taylor Swift reference (or 2!). I hope this episode is a reminder to listen to the small nudges you are receiving every day from various channels. Be open to the messages of your life and follow the guidance of your inner knowing.

    Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

    1. Hear from Chelsie how she knew that Spiritual Mentorship was her professional calling.
    2. Learn what Chelsie means when she talks about favorite self vs. higher self.
    3. Discover some of Chelsie’s spiritual icks!

    Resources

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    Leave an episode review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in to this episode, don’t forget to leave us a review. You can also share what you’ve learned today with your friends to help them embody their true, authentic selves. Anything is possible when you return home to yourself. 

    Have any questions or lightbulb moments? I’d love to hear from you! Feel free to hit me up on Instagram or send an email at elise@elisekindya.com. 

    Thank you so much for listening! For more episode updates, visit my website.

    Episode Transcript:

    EK

    00:00:00.24

    Yeah, like, what are the Claire?

    CS

    00:00:02.04

    ‘S so the Claire’s are our intuitive gifts, and the primary ones that people experience are clear cognizance, which is the one that I shared, which is the gift of knowing.

    00:00:15.84

    So that’s when you can’t really explain it.

    00:00:18.28

    You just know.

    00:00:19.44

    And time tends to prove you right.

    00:00:22.92

    I have.

    00:00:24.76

    I used to always call it a weird thing, but it’s not too weird.

    00:00:29.16

    Well, I’ll just buy a book and feel like I know everything in it.

    00:00:32.88

    And then I’ll start to read it and I’ll be like, yeah, I absorbed this.

    EK

    00:00:37.16

    And before you even read it, Oh.

    CS

    00:00:38.68

    I’ve even read it.

    EK

    00:00:40.56

    Welcome to returning home the podcast.

    00:00:43.56

    My name is Elise Kindya and I am a trauma informed and intuitive therapist.

    00:00:49.00

    This podcast is a space that I have created for you to discover a deeper understanding and love for yourself, which leads to expanding what you think is possible in your own life.

    00:01:00.84

    My goal is for you to feel excited to live your life as your full, authentic self.

    00:01:06.56

    By listening to these episodes you will learn things like how your brain works, my favorite resources for healing, stories from my own life, practices that you can press play on to add to your healing toolkit, and so much more.

    00:01:21.60

    I invite you to return home to yourself in big and small ways, to live the life you desire on your terms.

    00:01:28.80

    You can live connected, empowered and aligned.

    00:01:32.12

    When you return home to yourself, anything is possible.

    00:01:36.08

    I can’t wait to share all of my insights with you.

    00:01:39.04

    Now let’s begin.

    00:01:46.29

    Thank you so much for tuning back into returning home the podcast.

    00:01:50.33

    This is your host Elise Kindya and I want to introduce the guest that I am interviewing today on the podcast and her name is Chelsie Skowyra and she is a former mental health therapist until her spiritual awakening center on a journey of integrating psychology with spirituality.

    00:02:09.12

    She now works as a spiritual mentor offering offering transformational services such as teaching others how to be spiritual mentors, Reiki healings, and hosting self-care events.

    00:02:20.32

    And I always ask people who are going to be interviewed on the podcast what does returning home mean to them?

    00:02:27.76

    And I just loved Chelsie’s answer, so I want to read that here as well, she said.

    00:02:33.16

    Returning home to me, means seeing myself the way that my angels and guides see me.

    00:02:38.36

    It’s a remembrance that I am my soul.

    00:02:41.16

    I’m not just my body, my emotions, my thoughts.

    00:02:44.72

    Returning home is the warmth that comes halfway through a meditation.

    00:02:48.52

    What it suddenly, when it suddenly feels like a golden light, has wrapped you in a hug.

    00:02:53.80

    I just love that so much.

    00:02:55.00

    So I wanted to share that with anyone listening.

    00:02:58.52

    And yeah, I hope that you’re ready for a really interesting conversation between Chelsea and I.

    00:03:05.64

    So yeah, I hope you enjoy.

    00:03:08.04

    I’m here with Chelsie Skowyra, who is a therapist.

    00:03:12.08

    She’s a spiritual mentor.

    00:03:14.12

    She was my therapist and we had the best time in our healing sessions together.

    00:03:20.60

    I just so much like look up to you and respect you and think that you are such a good example to people for how to like do things in your own way.

    00:03:28.88

    So I was excited to invite you on the podcast and have you here and to be able to share with my audience and your audience and hopefully even some new people all about your story.

    00:03:39.32

    Like what brought you, you know, where you are today.

    00:03:42.36

    And yeah, like just.

    00:03:44.16

    Well, first of all, just thank you for being here.

    CS

    00:03:46.56

    My gosh, thank you so much for having me.

    00:03:48.60

    I’m so excited to be here.

    00:03:51.48

    Yeah.

    00:03:52.44

    Yeah.

    00:03:52.80

    This is, like, literally the perfect place to talk about.

    00:03:57.32

    It’s so interesting.

    00:03:58.12

    Right?

    00:03:58.28

    You’re returning home.

    00:04:00.12

    And right away I’m thinking about how so much of our like, purpose we think about like feeling at home within our purpose.

    00:04:10.32

    And then our society kind of has conditioned us to think our purpose is our job.

    00:04:14.96

    And so we get really gung ho on like, wow, life sucks if I’m not feeling at home in my purpose.

    00:04:22.52

    And that has to be my job.

    EK

    00:04:24.28

    Wow, yeah.

    CS

    00:04:26.08

    Yeah, and I think that as a spiritual mentor, I’ve been able to like, find that home in like a job and purpose.

    00:04:33.12

    But also like part of my role too.

    00:04:35.68

    Feels like being able to tell people, like your job can just be how you make money.

    00:04:40.16

    Like you do not need to find a sense of purpose and what’s paying your paycheck.

    00:04:44.88

    Like sure, do not get caught up in that in order to, like, have that feeling within yourself.

    EK

    00:04:52.56

    Yeah, It’s almost like better to, you know, be able to compartmentalize in that way of like, I just go to work and I make my money and I feel like it’s taking care of me.

    00:05:02.32

    It gives me almost like that Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, like that basic just food, water, shelter, like security and then being able to kind of go up, you know, the hierarchy and actually fulfill yourself with hobbies and relationships and what are, you know, the things that make life actually like rich and worth living.

    CS

    00:05:24.24

    Exactly like I I literally, I quit my job.

    00:05:28.76

    He moved back to Michigan, quit my job in community mental health, I should say moved back to Michigan, started interviewing for other like community mental health jobs went what the fuck am I doing?

    00:05:39.60

    I can’t keep doing that.

    00:05:40.68

    That’s not going to work for me.

    00:05:42.20

    Decided that I’m just going to use the law of attraction to build to build my business and that didn’t quite work out.

    00:05:50.72

    So I got a part time job at a spa for a while and that holy shit, the creative freedom within my business that came from not having to be like what’s gonna make me money this week was mind blowing and totally actually, like shifted the trajectory of my business.

    00:06:07.56

    Like, yeah, there is no harm in doing what you need to do in order to make your cash and have that creative freedom to be able to pursue what actually lights you up.

    EK

    00:06:20.36

    Wait, so you used to work in a spa?

    00:06:22.04

    Because that’s part of my story too.

    00:06:23.96

    I used to work in a spa too.

    00:06:25.44

    So wait, I didn’t even know that.

    CS

    00:06:27.40

    Yeah, I was just like part time receptionist.

    EK

    00:06:30.68

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:06:31.44

    And I mean a a $20 massage.

    00:06:34.96

    I was literally manifesting more opportunities for physical self-care.

    00:06:39.80

    And I said especially massages and facials.

    00:06:42.68

    Oh wow.

    00:06:43.84

    And then I got a job, and I got basically free massages and facials.

    EK

    00:06:49.56

    Oh, that’s so great.

    CS

    00:06:51.12

    Yes.

    EK

    00:06:51.52

    So the Law of attraction did work for you in that.

    CS

    00:06:53.56

    Way it totally did work.

    00:06:56.36

    It just I have learned so much about how it’s like, yeah baby, use that law of attraction, but don’t like rely on it.

    00:07:05.20

    Don’t give it more power than like divine order, than your own intuitive callings and your own knowing of, like, what works for you in your life.

    00:07:16.92

    Yeah.

    EK

    00:07:18.04

    Well, that’s a good that I feel like that’s a good, like segue or like a way to connect what you do with you know, I know that and you like to talk about the intersection of spirituality and psychology.

    00:07:29.68

    And you know, I know this word law of attraction is like this huge buzzword in you know the more like spiritual communities.

    00:07:36.84

    But yeah, how did you come to bridge spirituality and psychology?

    CS

    00:07:41.76

    So this whole world was introduced to me when I was working as a therapist by one of my case managers.

    00:07:48.24

    Shout out to Marissa, listen to their music, any yeah any meditation that I have made.

    00:07:56.40

    They’ve created the like background.

    EK

    00:07:59.20

    That’s right.

    00:08:00.04

    I remember meeting her on one of our the programs I did with you.

    00:08:03.32

    Yeah, if it was like it must have been shadow searching.

    CS

    00:08:06.64

    It might have been.

    00:08:08.00

    It might have been.

    00:08:09.04

    Yeah.

    00:08:09.56

    Yeah.

    00:08:10.48

    And she invited me to, like, she’s like you.

    00:08:12.60

    We should do this book club on this book called May Cause Miracles by Gabby Bernstein.

    00:08:17.24

    And I was like, sure, OK, that sounds nice.

    00:08:21.08

    I need a way to, like, survive and take care of myself.

    00:08:25.00

    And she was already like, here are my crystals.

    00:08:28.48

    Here are my tarot cards.

    00:08:30.24

    Let me tell you what your angels are saying about you.

    00:08:32.80

    And I was like.

    EK

    00:08:35.08

    What this?

    CS

    00:08:36.64

    Is like what she pulled.

    EK

    00:08:40.16

    So this was completely new to you at that point, Like you weren’t?

    CS

    00:08:43.08

    Like, it was like, so I’ll say completely new to me.

    00:08:46.28

    But then when I really think about my life, right, I’ll think about how the fact that my sociology advisor in undergrad was a witch.

    00:08:54.12

    Like, full blown.

    00:08:54.84

    She’s like, hey, yo, I’m Pagan.

    00:08:56.64

    It influences what I do, who I am.

    00:08:59.60

    So you should know that about me and had us meditating like the first week of class.

    00:09:06.76

    I had a random person.

    00:09:08.20

    I’m like looking over at my Morgan Grier, the hero deck that just some random person gave to me.

    EK

    00:09:15.96

    Oh wow.

    00:09:16.56

    And.

    CS

    00:09:16.88

    I’m like, I don’t know how like, so it’s been around a lot longer than I realized.

    00:09:22.08

    But when I really like, I would say like the awakening, right?

    00:09:26.48

    The like, OK, this is something I need to welcome into my life was this book club and how working through all the things Gabby had laid out just opened me up to my intuition and opened me up to, you know, you just, you know, that feeling of when you’re meditating and all of a sudden, like, there’s that warmth and there’s that, like whiteness and you’re just like, oh wait, is this how I’m supposed to be feeling?

    00:09:56.72

    I was hooked.

    00:09:59.00

    I was hooked.

    00:10:00.20

    I was hooked.

    00:10:01.00

    And then she invited somebody up to do energy healing.

    00:10:05.08

    So I had my FirstEnergy healing and was like, wow, this.

    00:10:10.72

    I couldn’t.

    EK

    00:10:11.64

    Who invited somebody?

    CS

    00:10:13.12

    Up Marissa had invited one of her like friends that did energy healings and so I had.

    00:10:19.04

    I experienced the healing from her and was like I have no choice but to accept like how real.

    EK

    00:10:24.76

    This is, yeah.

    CS

    00:10:26.36

    It was.

    EK

    00:10:27.24

    And that was Reiki or what was that?

    CS

    00:10:31.16

    I’m.

    00:10:31.48

    I’m probably going to mispronounce it Shambhala.

    00:10:35.48

    Have you heard of that?

    00:10:36.32

    I haven’t.

    EK

    00:10:37.44

    Yeah, kind of familiar, but I I don’t know what it is.

    CS

    00:10:40.72

    Yeah, I don’t even know if this person does healings anymore or I, but but she like, really helped clear some things out with it.

    00:10:53.68

    I mean, you know, being a therapist and being an empath and not knowing that you’re these things, you’re just holding on to everything.

    EK

    00:11:01.08

    Right.

    00:11:01.96

    And especially in community mental health and the and the places you were working, it’s like very could be anything any given day.

    CS

    00:11:12.32

    We’re we’re going to the same places that police are showing up in their bulletproof vest.

    00:11:17.00

    We’re showing up with a bake of toys.

    EK

    00:11:19.64

    Right, exactly.

    00:11:21.80

    Yeah.

    00:11:21.96

    So you were you were doing that type of like crisis response kind of stuff?

    CS

    00:11:27.72

    Was I supposed to be doing that?

    00:11:29.80

    Probably not.

    00:11:30.88

    Was it just a part of the gig at that time?

    00:11:34.28

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:11:37.20

    And and so here I am, trying to make sure that, like, I’m helping these people while barely being able to survive myself because I’m not getting paid shit.

    EK

    00:11:48.64

    I.

    CS

    00:11:48.96

    Mean no, the support I mean bless some of these people there was I worked with some amazing people in community mental health and we refer to them as like the second floor people, right, like so the HR, the billing, all of that.

    00:12:04.44

    There was just like so much pressure from down there and no support upstairs, no actual clinical support.

    00:12:13.04

    It was all about, I mean, they want me to ask this parent about paying their overdue bill when I’m buying their child McDonald’s every week so their kids can eat.

    EK

    00:12:23.80

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:12:24.60

    Give me a break.

    00:12:25.64

    Give me a break.

    00:12:26.48

    Yeah, I know I’m kind of falling away from your question here, but.

    EK

    00:12:31.08

    Well, it it tells the story as to like what what kind of brought you on, You know, this is all part of your path.

    00:12:37.48

    And when you can look at it from this side of things to like this, from this vantage point on your path, it makes a lot of sense.

    00:12:43.88

    Like how when you look back, of course, like Hindsight’s 2020 and you can see all of what happened, but it makes total sense as to like why things went the way they went.

    00:12:54.60

    And like when you were talking about your awakening, those things are happening.

    00:12:58.12

    And it feels like really scary because Oh my God, I’ve just invested all this time and money into grad school.

    00:13:05.52

    And now I want to like quote UN quote, throw that all away.

    00:13:08.44

    Like what the fuck am I doing?

    00:13:10.68

    That’s what I that was my thought when I started like I quit my job and then I started working at the spa and like I had all, I had three-part time jobs at one point and I was like, what am I doing, you know, and like, but from this side of things and I can see and now having worked for myself for all these years, it’s like it makes total sense that.

    00:13:29.96

    So I say that to say like, you’re not getting off the point.

    00:13:34.24

    Like it gets the point.

    00:13:35.24

    It makes so much sense.

    CS

    00:13:37.36

    Yeah, and so then I’m like finally finding something that helps myself and and feeling like there isn’t a place to really like bring that in.

    00:13:48.80

    Like I started doing weekly self-care sessions for all the other therapists after a group meetings and nice.

    00:13:55.68

    I was like these are so fun but the fact that there was no support made it feel so just empty and weird.

    00:14:07.00

    Like one quick example I have.

    00:14:08.64

    I hosted a self-care challenge for the month of February and I asked if we could approach a local spa and see if they would donate a gift card for a one hour massage.

    00:14:17.96

    I was told we cannot do that because they donate to the United Way and we received funding through the United Way and so that would be looking greedy.

    00:14:26.44

    And I did not have their blessing to gut like.

    00:14:29.20

    So I wanted to, like, take my little badge and be like, this is where I you know, this is who I am.

    00:14:33.04

    And they’d.

    EK

    00:14:33.56

    Be more than happy to give it to.

    CS

    00:14:35.84

    You And so I spent my own fucking money to get the gift card and I’m like, ’cause I’m like, whatever.

    00:14:42.52

    You guys really don’t want to like, let me ask.

    00:14:46.08

    They can say no.

    00:14:47.08

    I would have totally respected the spa.

    00:14:48.64

    They’re like, babe, we are like a local home grown spa.

    00:14:52.56

    We need that $60.00.

    00:14:54.52

    Like we cannot donate.

    00:14:56.28

    Wait, OK, thank you so much.

    00:14:57.64

    Totally understand.

    00:14:59.16

    But the fact that the people who were making like 6 figures without making $14.00 an hour are like, no, you can’t ask them for that.

    EK

    00:15:08.64

    That is very unhinged.

    CS

    00:15:10.28

    They couldn’t support us in, like, the most minuscule ways.

    EK

    00:15:13.92

    Right.

    CS

    00:15:14.92

    So why do I want to like stay?

    EK

    00:15:18.00

    Right.

    CS

    00:15:18.84

    And then why do I want to re enter that?

    EK

    00:15:22.84

    No.

    CS

    00:15:24.28

    You don’t.

    00:15:25.48

    I I don’t.

    00:15:27.36

    You have to and Oh my gosh, what a crazy, wild feeling that was.

    EK

    00:15:33.92

    To be like realized.

    CS

    00:15:35.52

    Yeah, like, oh, I could just do my own thing.

    00:15:39.44

    What would that be like?

    00:15:41.16

    Oh my gosh, that’s scary.

    00:15:43.84

    But what’s scarier is staying trapped in that system That just did not serve me whatsoever.

    EK

    00:15:52.40

    Yeah we were working together when I so I was working at a non profit not doing therapy like I was still just like I don’t know, I just I didn’t know where to go.

    00:16:03.92

    I had such impostor syndrome that was drilled into me from from school and supervision and all that stuff and daddy issues.

    00:16:12.32

    I have so much stuff to update you on.

    00:16:14.08

    By the way about my dad.

    00:16:15.76

    I I we’re not doing it on the podcast.

    00:16:17.28

    I’m going to cut this out.

    CS

    00:16:18.64

    Yes, yes, yeah.

    00:16:20.44

    But I I need to be updated.

    EK

    00:16:23.56

    Oh my God.

    00:16:24.12

    But anyways, yes, so much imposter syndrome drilled into me.

    00:16:28.72

    And so when we were working, when you and I started working together, I actually OK, it’s so funny the way I heard about you too, because I was working at a spa, I ended up meeting this girl named Jen, and we’re like just kind of know each other, kind of socially, whatever.

    00:16:43.32

    And then she DMS me this episode of a podcast that you were on, I think, with the Natalie Bright.

    00:16:48.68

    And she was like, this person sounds like they approach their work so much like you.

    00:16:53.44

    And it was like a combination of therapy and spirituality.

    00:16:55.92

    And I wasn’t even really doing.

    00:16:57.32

    I had been taking time off therapy at the time from being a therapist.

    00:17:01.08

    And I was like, oh, my God.

    00:17:02.64

    And that’s when I reached out to you.

    00:17:04.20

    But yeah, so we were working together, like, Fast forward, you know, sometimes six months or something.

    00:17:11.16

    And I was working at that nonprofit.

    00:17:13.56

    And then I remember I had started like in early 2020, putting myself out there as a therapist and like, I I was like getting clients and you know, it was great.

    00:17:24.20

    And then I remember that moment when you were like, ’cause I I didn’t want to give up my non profit job, but I didn’t have enough hours in the day to then also take client like my therapy clients during the day.

    00:17:34.40

    And I was like, I just don’t want to give up that paycheck.

    00:17:36.48

    And you said to me, what if payday could be every day?

    00:17:40.36

    And I was like, OK, Chelsea, like, yeah, So then I quit my job.

    00:17:47.32

    And I mean, of course, you know, then I was able to take more clients and I just see my square, you know, payment things just go like, like it’s just like this like 45° angle, you know?

    00:17:57.44

    And I was like, wow.

    00:17:59.60

    And it is.

    00:18:00.12

    It’s such a crazy feeling when you and, like, you know the name of this podcast, This is all about how this even came about, is like returning home, like returning back to what you have kind of always known to be true, but it got kind of beaten out of us, socialized out of us.

    00:18:16.52

    We’re told, like, we don’t know what we’re doing.

    00:18:18.44

    And of course, in the therapy field, they’re like, you have no idea what you’re doing.

    00:18:21.80

    You need thousands of hours of supervision and you need to go tell all your deepest, darkest secrets.

    00:18:27.76

    It’s like it’s almost like going to confession.

    00:18:30.40

    You need church.

    CS

    00:18:32.04

    You need thousands of hours of supervision, but it’s your second week of classes, so go on down to that practicum site and be a therapist excuse.

    EK

    00:18:42.64

    Me, unhinged, they don’t know what they’re doing.

    00:18:46.96

    I mean, so here’s like what I’ve taken away from.

    00:18:49.16

    That too is like, they don’t know what they’re doing.

    00:18:52.40

    Yes.

    00:18:52.88

    Why am I learning from these people?

    00:18:54.40

    They don’t know what they’re doing.

    00:18:55.68

    I know what I’m doing.

    00:18:58.48

    So we’re good over here.

    00:19:00.20

    But anyway, yeah, so that thing is like, what would you describe it as when you when you.

    00:19:06.84

    So when you decided for yourself, you know, I I had you to reflect that back to me.

    00:19:12.48

    Like you could just make payday every day and I can actually do the work I want to be doing too.

    00:19:17.36

    Like, that’s like also that I get to do the work.

    00:19:20.12

    Like, I fucking love my work Now I was telling one of my clients, I’m like, I don’t dread coming to work.

    00:19:25.12

    I dread when I’m late and I’m in traffic, but I don’t dread talking to hardly any of my clients.

    00:19:31.36

    I mean, I do have one client that’s like a Trumper, and that’s really her problem.

    00:19:35.88

    But anyway, yeah, like, it’s not the same.

    00:19:40.60

    Like, I don’t dread I I wish you could see my office.

    00:19:43.36

    Oh, I showed it to you one time.

    00:19:45.12

    I love coming here.

    00:19:46.24

    This is like my spiritual sanctuary.

    00:19:50.48

    But yeah, how would you describe that feeling as who reflected it back to you that you could work for yourself or how did you even hear or get that message?

    CS

    00:20:00.44

    So I think a little bit of it is shout out to Marissa again, because Marissa just doesn’t.

    00:20:12.12

    There are no rules when it comes to that creature.

    00:20:15.48

    Like they are just the entire gamut of this reality and every other reality that exists.

    EK

    00:20:22.16

    Wow.

    CS

    00:20:23.04

    So I went to the Spirit Junkie Master class in New York City in 2017.

    00:20:30.56

    And being there, I mean totally transparent.

    00:20:36.20

    I have like a love, hate relationship with this experience.

    EK

    00:20:39.12

    Yeah.

    00:20:39.44

    And this is with Gabby Bernstein for people who don’t know.

    00:20:41.84

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:20:42.40

    Yes.

    00:20:43.20

    So I love the fact that it really did boost my confidence.

    00:20:49.16

    I really did learn a lot about just like believing in myself and the energy of being a spiritual entrepreneur.

    00:20:57.52

    And then on the other hand, I do think it fed into a little bit of like the De Lulu of just like I can just.

    EK

    00:21:05.24

    Manifest my own business.

    CS

    00:21:06.88

    Manifest these things, right?

    00:21:08.80

    Yeah.

    00:21:09.44

    And it’s like, OK, that’s great, but like, what about LLC and taxes like?

    EK

    00:21:15.36

    Like, where’s the like, Business and nuts and Bolts?

    00:21:18.24

    101 Workshop at Spirit Junkie.

    CS

    00:21:20.80

    Exactly, exactly.

    EK

    00:21:22.56

    Gabby, if you’re listening, maybe that would be a good workshop addition to whatever you offer.

    CS

    00:21:28.12

    Yeah, just a little bit of that tangible like don’t get yourself sued energy.

    EK

    00:21:34.72

    Lord.

    CS

    00:21:35.48

    Yes.

    EK

    00:21:37.00

    That didn’t happen to you, did it?

    00:21:38.76

    No.

    00:21:38.92

    No.

    CS

    00:21:39.08

    OK, I was.

    EK

    00:21:39.76

    Like.

    CS

    00:21:40.96

    No.

    EK

    00:21:41.68

    People better not come for Chelsea, no?

    CS

    00:21:46.88

    I have an off the record conversation I’ll share with you.

    00:21:50.68

    OK, yeah.

    00:21:55.04

    But honestly, I think my first inspiration, first thing I could do, my own thing, is that my grandmother ran her own catering business my whole life.

    00:22:06.48

    And so I watched her growing up build this wildly successful catering business.

    00:22:13.28

    She never invested a dime in advertising, really.

    00:22:18.64

    It was all word of mouth Then Don Catering for, I want to say like 5, maybe a little five years, maybe a little longer now.

    00:22:30.76

    And still people are calling, asking if she’ll work their whatever.

    EK

    00:22:36.16

    Like, she retired five years ago.

    00:22:38.80

    Yeah, that word of mouth hasn’t spread it.

    00:22:41.64

    It just right.

    00:22:43.72

    Oh, she was so good at what she did.

    CS

    00:22:45.56

    She was really like she’s done some pretty, I mean like, yeah, it feels like name droppy to be like she’s done some pretty high end weddings, but like she did Jeff Daniel’s wedding, like that’s cool.

    EK

    00:22:59.12

    Like from Arachnophobia.

    00:23:00.64

    Like from Dumb and Dumber.

    00:23:03.64

    Yeah, Daddy like.

    CS

    00:23:07.84

    We got to cater the opening night for the Purple Rose Theater that he owns and runs for like a decade until they wanted somebody with a liquor license.

    00:23:16.60

    And my grandma was like, I don’t do that, so have fun.

    EK

    00:23:19.44

    Wow.

    CS

    00:23:20.76

    But that was so cool and she started off as a nurse.

    EK

    00:23:25.16

    Wow.

    00:23:25.84

    Oh my God.

    00:23:28.32

    Yeah.

    00:23:29.44

    Yeah.

    00:23:29.68

    That’s very inspiring.

    CS

    00:23:31.48

    Right, right.

    00:23:32.60

    And so I’m like, you know what?

    00:23:34.36

    My grandma can be an entrepreneur.

    00:23:36.84

    I can be an entrepreneur.

    EK

    00:23:38.64

    Yeah, what’s her name?

    CS

    00:23:40.48

    Her name is Pat.

    EK

    00:23:41.80

    Pat we love.

    00:23:42.84

    We love you, Pat.

    00:23:44.08

    Shout out.

    CS

    00:23:44.88

    Patricia.

    EK

    00:23:46.60

    Yes, sweet.

    00:23:47.64

    That’s so great.

    CS

    00:23:48.80

    Yeah.

    EK

    00:23:49.64

    So you had like that was kind of a role model in your life, that you saw somebody that was working for themselves and you thought if they can do it, I can do it, yeah.

    00:23:58.96

    But then you had this moment.

    00:24:00.32

    So with Marissa, you went to Spirit Junkie and was there a conversation at that?

    00:24:08.80

    I guess it’s a conference or the.

    CS

    00:24:13.00

    Yeah, the the precipice for me deciding to go full time within my business and as like a spiritual therapist, spiritual entrepreneur, spiritual mentor, whatever term topic you want to or title I should say you want to use was.

    00:24:28.80

    I went for a job interview at a residential center and they wanted to place me with sex offenders ages 17 to 21.

    00:24:41.20

    And those group of individuals absolutely need the best support and help that they can get.

    00:24:47.72

    I have just spent the last five years working with the opposite population.

    00:24:53.00

    So they’re asking me, how do you feel about signing court documents saying that they can return home or the victim would?

    00:24:59.40

    I’ll never be.

    00:25:00.92

    I’ll never be able to do that.

    00:25:02.16

    And they deserve somebody who could see that for them, right?

    00:25:05.24

    Like that is the type of healing support that they needed.

    00:25:08.80

    So I went home and I cried and I was like, what am I going to do for money?

    00:25:14.20

    And then I I was like, I’m just going to go full time in my business and two weeks later a student died there.

    EK

    00:25:23.36

    No.

    CS

    00:25:24.20

    Was killed due to a restraint.

    EK

    00:25:27.44

    Whoa.

    CS

    00:25:28.68

    Whoa.

    00:25:30.64

    And after that, I was especially like, yeah, I can’t.

    00:25:34.60

    I’m not doing that.

    00:25:36.60

    That’s not for me.

    00:25:37.56

    That’s not Oh my God, Yeah.

    EK

    00:25:40.16

    Oh.

    CS

    00:25:40.76

    Yeah.

    EK

    00:25:41.44

    Well, that makes total sense as to why you wouldn’t and kind of talks to, you know that divine timing or like alignment that you know kind of took you a good thing.

    00:25:52.40

    They asked you that question and you knew the answer very clearly to take to take that out of your path.

    CS

    00:25:59.40

    Yeah, yeah, I I had to.

    EK

    00:26:04.04

    Yeah.

    00:26:04.60

    So from then is when you became employed, like self-employed and worked at the spa at the same time kind of thing.

    CS

    00:26:12.24

    I I actually didn’t start working at the spa until 2019.

    00:26:17.88

    So I tried.

    00:26:19.80

    Because here’s where, like, some of the toxicity of the law of attraction got into my brain, right?

    00:26:24.24

    I was like, if I get a job, is that telling the universe?

    00:26:27.88

    I don’t believe in myself, right?

    00:26:30.72

    And then I won’t attract the clients and the success that I want within my own business, right?

    00:26:36.68

    And then my husband was like, do we want to move out into our own home?

    00:26:41.44

    And I was like, OK, I’m gonna go get a job.

    EK

    00:26:43.84

    Yeah, and.

    CS

    00:26:44.68

    It was actually one of Natalie Bright’s programs I was in at that time of like all about building, like, sacred strategies within your business.

    00:26:53.40

    And she was a great support to be like, why don’t you just go and find something to help pay the bills and not put this pressure on yourself?

    00:27:02.44

    So right, yeah.

    EK

    00:27:04.00

    Well, that was good.

    00:27:04.68

    You had some good like input there.

    CS

    00:27:07.60

    Yes, yes.

    00:27:09.16

    And so then I was there till 2021 and then I had like a TikTok go mini viral and had like 100 consultations booked and was like bye.

    EK

    00:27:18.88

    Right, right.

    00:27:20.60

    Yeah.

    00:27:20.84

    And how have things been going since that?

    CS

    00:27:23.28

    They definitely Last year was a weird year.

    EK

    00:27:27.64

    I think everyone can relate to that, yeah.

    CS

    00:27:30.40

    It would.

    00:27:31.44

    Everybody just realized that that like they needed a long nap and not to talk to anybody.

    00:27:37.84

    And so things were like really, really, really slow.

    EK

    00:27:42.72

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:27:43.80

    But we’ve shifted into an 8 year.

    00:27:47.04

    We’re out of that seven-year numerology that was all about introspection and our spiritual growth.

    00:27:53.04

    People are ready to do the damn thing now.

    00:27:55.12

    So we’re picking back up.

    EK

    00:27:57.08

    Yeah, yeah.

    00:27:58.48

    So you just launched a really successful program.

    00:28:01.36

    Can you talk a little bit about that?

    00:28:02.92

    What is?

    00:28:03.40

    What is this program?

    CS

    00:28:05.12

    So the program is called Become a Spiritual Mentor and it is basically teaching people how to do what I do and integrating psychology and spirituality and teaching them how to bring on that mentor role.

    00:28:24.08

    Not just like to serve others, but to just improve their own life and to really embody all the things that they’re reading about in their spiritual self help books and things like that.

    00:28:35.88

    I I know being in this field and I know this is conversations we’ve had before too, right?

    00:28:41.00

    Where you see, like these spiritual life coaches who are, like, so well-intentioned, right?

    00:28:46.24

    Like they just want to help people, but then you see them say something.

    00:28:49.72

    You’re like, oh, I know you don’t know better, but I really wish you knew better.

    EK

    00:28:55.32

    And so it would be an example of that, like something that these well-intentioned spiritual coaches say that is like.

    CS

    00:29:01.96

    Oh gosh, I I just made part of the program.

    00:29:08.80

    I have like a little I’m called like a podcast style thing called The Bridge where I just rant and riff on these things.

    00:29:15.32

    Like my first episode of, I called my spiritual ex and so I’m trying to think of one of the ones that I had shared.

    00:29:25.04

    I mean, OK, I’m trying to think of if I feel like this is OK.

    00:29:31.24

    I do feel like this is well-intentioned and it’s still shitty Twin flames.

    EK

    00:29:36.84

    Right.

    CS

    00:29:38.04

    So when people try to be like, I’m going to help you find your twin flame, I want to help you do the inner child healing so that you can attract your twin flame in your life and experience the love that you’ve always wanted to, even if it’s incredibly toxic and harmful and destroys your entire life.

    00:29:53.96

    They’re your twin flame and it’s your destiny.

    00:29:58.56

    No.

    00:29:58.72

    Oh no.

    EK

    00:29:59.88

    Did you watch that Netflix documentary?

    CS

    00:30:02.04

    I couldn’t even yet.

    00:30:04.60

    Knowing that they are also in Michigan, like, creeps me out so bad, ’cause that’s where I am and I’m like, like, no, you’re making what I do look stupid.

    00:30:16.84

    How dare you?

    EK

    00:30:18.44

    I know, yeah.

    CS

    00:30:19.52

    So I’ve heard about it.

    00:30:20.68

    I’ve read about it, but I have not.

    00:30:22.72

    I know I need to.

    00:30:24.08

    I haven’t forced myself to sit down and watch it yet.

    EK

    00:30:27.12

    But that it’s unhinged.

    CS

    00:30:29.00

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:30:30.52

    I would say that that is something that I see, yeah.

    00:30:33.56

    Wanting to help people find love and attract love into their life.

    00:30:37.80

    Totally.

    EK

    00:30:38.16

    Beautiful.

    00:30:39.16

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:30:40.04

    Calling it a twin flame and all the things that go along with what people are categorizing as a twin flame relationship AKA abuse, right?

    00:30:48.48

    Not so cute.

    EK

    00:30:50.20

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:30:51.80

    And so I was like, you know what?

    00:30:54.32

    What if I taught people?

    00:30:56.32

    What if I’m the one that taught them how to do better?

    EK

    00:30:59.28

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:31:00.24

    And I was like, you know, and my community mental health days.

    00:31:03.20

    I was also a supervisor.

    00:31:05.44

    I supervised the team of case managers.

    00:31:07.56

    It was our family intervention team.

    00:31:09.76

    So the child had to be in our services and the parent had to be in our services.

    00:31:14.60

    And in order to receive our services, you had to be at like a certain level of need and functioning.

    00:31:19.68

    So I was in charge of like over 100 different cases.

    00:31:24.20

    As a baby, I was 24 years.

    EK

    00:31:27.00

    Old.

    CS

    00:31:29.08

    But that experience also like supported, helped me get rid of like the imposter syndrome of like who am I to teach?

    00:31:36.04

    Like bitch, you supervise with that whole team of people.

    00:31:39.64

    And like, Oh yeah, you are absolutely the one to teach them all these things.

    00:31:45.04

    And you know, I’m very clear, cognizant like that is my strongest clear by far.

    00:31:53.00

    And it has taken some healing and some time for me to just finally own.

    00:31:59.32

    Like, I have some pretty fucking cool ideas about integrating spirituality and psychology and the way to share them and the way to just, like, bring it to people.

    00:32:10.76

    So why do I either A, feel like, who am I to be saying that or B, feel like, oh, if only somebody like Gabby Bernstein or, you know, Peter Levine had said one of these things and people would believe it and that would be valid.

    00:32:28.96

    And no, it’s all valid and it’s all impactful.

    00:32:34.32

    And so I might as well go ahead and own Hey, here’s my idea.

    00:32:40.20

    Let’s bring it to the world and see what happens.

    EK

    00:32:43.12

    Yeah, so I have two things that are coming up as questions, one of them being you said your strongest Claire, what are all the Claire’s and what are those?

    CS

    00:32:52.16

    Yes.

    EK

    00:32:53.32

    And and then the other question being kind of talking about like the validity of these things and like you mentioned Peter Levine, like the person who came up with somatic experiencing, we want came up with, you know, whatever, He’s like the father of somatic experiencing, right.

    00:33:14.20

    And so, yeah, like what gives him clout versus, you know, something that do you want to bring.

    00:33:21.44

    So those are the so two questions that came up as you were saying that I’ll write them down so we don’t forget.

    00:33:26.76

    But yeah, like, what are the Claire’s?

    CS

    00:33:29.92

    So the Claire’s are our intuitive gifts, and the primary ones that people experience are clear cognizance, which is the one that I shared, which is the gift of knowing.

    00:33:43.12

    So that’s when you can’t really explain it.

    00:33:45.48

    You just know.

    00:33:46.64

    And time tends to prove you right.

    00:33:50.12

    I have.

    00:33:51.92

    I used to always call it a weird thing, but it’s not too weird.

    00:33:56.40

    Well, I’ll just buy a book and feel like I know everything in it.

    00:34:00.04

    And then I’ll start to read it and I’ll be like, yeah, I absorbed this.

    EK

    00:34:04.32

    And it’s before you even read it.

    CS

    00:34:05.80

    Oh, I’ve even read it.

    EK

    00:34:07.08

    Wow.

    CS

    00:34:08.08

    Like, my business first started off as Chakra Chelsea.

    00:34:12.48

    The first time somebody ever said the word chakra to me, I was like, Oh yeah, the energy centers, boom, boom, boom, makes perfect sense.

    00:34:21.84

    Understand the colors, understand what they are, what they mean.

    00:34:25.68

    And I remember somebody like, in like my first or second year, really sharing the stuff was like, what book did you read about the chakras?

    00:34:33.24

    I got to read that book.

    00:34:34.48

    And I was like, I have never read a book.

    00:34:37.44

    I’ve never read a book on the chakras.

    00:34:38.76

    And I’ve never read a book on shadow work like I’ve been.

    00:34:42.28

    I’ve never read a single thing by Carl Jung.

    00:34:46.04

    Really.

    00:34:46.56

    I have no idea what he says about shadow work.

    00:34:49.08

    So whenever people are like, oh, you did shadow, right?

    00:34:51.84

    Oh, Paul Young.

    00:34:52.72

    I’m like no, yes, but no.

    EK

    00:34:55.80

    No – Chelsie Skowyra.

    CS

    00:34:57.44

    Chelsie Skowyra, Actually, yeah, yeah, a shout out to ifs, you know, ’cause they influence a little bit of how I approach shadow work.

    00:35:06.08

    But yeah, so Claire cognizance, the gift of knowing clairvoyance, which is probably the most like, well known Claire, which is the gift of seeing.

    00:35:17.12

    So for me, this feels like a Daydream.

    00:35:22.48

    So when I’m tapping into my clairvoyance during a Reiki healing and channeling and I’m offering the client what it is that I’m seeing, it’s not like I’m sitting here with my eyes open and being like, Oh my gosh, I see an elephant right in front of me.

    00:35:39.40

    It’s like, oh, I see an elephant like I.

    EK

    00:35:43.20

    Can in your third eye.

    CS

    00:35:44.48

    In my third eye, just like as if I’m sitting here daydreaming about trying to get tickets to the next Taylor Swift eras show.

    00:35:52.08

    Like it’s just like that.

    00:35:55.16

    It’s just like that, but it’s not as like self-guided as a Daydream tends to be.

    EK

    00:36:01.16

    OK.

    00:36:01.56

    So when you say self-guided, you mean like guided by spirit?

    00:36:04.84

    Maybe more so or.

    CS

    00:36:06.52

    Yeah, just kind of like, all right, let’s we’re we’re gonna just see what happens here and letting spirit or whatever it is that you’re connecting with take the lead clear audience, which is the gift of hearing.

    00:36:24.52

    A lot of people will start to experience this as like they’ll call it fan people.

    00:36:30.52

    Where you know if you’ve ever experienced, where you have a fan on in the background and all of a sudden you can like hear a voice talking to you.

    00:36:37.68

    Like that’s kind of how clear audience starts.

    00:36:39.68

    For some people, it can also be the same sensation as getting a song stuck in your head.

    EK

    00:36:45.76

    That.

    CS

    00:36:46.60

    That is a huge way to know that you have some clear audience.

    00:36:50.40

    You’re just going about your day and also you got a random song stuck in your head.

    00:36:54.44

    You better be looking up the lyrics to that song.

    00:36:56.92

    You better be putting that song on and moving your body because.

    EK

    00:36:59.56

    Right.

    CS

    00:37:00.60

    There’s a message there for you.

    EK

    00:37:04.68

    OK.

    CS

    00:37:05.08

    I think clairaudience is also the one that freaks people out the most.

    EK

    00:37:08.36

    Yeah.

    00:37:08.60

    You think it makes me think of, like, hallucinations, like hearing, like hearing voices or yeah.

    CS

    00:37:15.52

    The way I have two like, discerning questions I ask people when we’re talking about is this Claire?

    00:37:22.88

    Like, is this the Claire or is this a hallucination that I need medication for?

    00:37:28.60

    So first question is, do you feel harm?

    00:37:35.96

    Like, do you do you feel like this wishes you harm or that it wants you to cause harm to yourself or others?

    00:37:42.20

    Oh yes, OK, that that is not your spirit team talking to you.

    00:37:47.48

    No, no, no, no, no.

    00:37:49.00

    Those they might feel weird, they might feel scary, but they’re going to be loving messages, right?

    00:37:55.08

    The second one is, is it impacting your quality of life?

    00:37:59.36

    Are you hearing things and now you can’t go to work?

    00:38:02.28

    Are you seeing things and all of a sudden you want to isolate yourself and not bathe or shower or eat because it is causing you so much distress, right.

    00:38:11.64

    That is most likely a hallucination.

    00:38:13.96

    Go and get that help that you deserve.

    00:38:17.04

    And the the for people who are experiencing that, like those are the type of people who, if they came to me for spiritual mentoring and I’m talking with them in a consultation, I would say, like, I can offer you all of the love, but yeah, I gotta give you a referral.

    EK

    00:38:33.76

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:38:34.40

    Right.

    00:38:34.60

    Yeah.

    00:38:35.36

    Yeah.

    00:38:36.20

    And then we.

    EK

    00:38:36.56

    Get because that stuff is absolutely real, right?

    00:38:38.88

    But like there is also, I think people get like scared about, well, is is contact with your spirit team, is that just hallucinating?

    00:38:46.44

    Is that just you making something up in your head versus like, no.

    00:38:49.84

    These are really real experiences that people are having, and it’s not dangerous.

    00:38:55.36

    It’s actually really empowering and it makes us feel less alone in the world because there’s all this stuff going on in these subtle energy realms that’s not just like what we see in 3D.

    00:39:07.92

    Sorry I cut you off, though.

    00:39:09.12

    So you were talking about the different Claire’s.

    00:39:10.92

    You’re totally.

    CS

    00:39:11.56

    Fine, the final Claire.

    00:39:14.00

    I want to mention there’s also like, smell and taste to be.

    00:39:19.16

    To be totally honest, I can’t remember the exact names of those right now, but the other most common Claire is Claire Satnance.

    00:39:27.44

    And that’s like your empaths.

    00:39:29.84

    Those are the people who are feeling the messages within their body.

    00:39:36.52

    Like, I just had a conversation with my husband about this the other day.

    00:39:40.48

    We passed a car accident and I just was like like as a you, you don’t want to just like throw up and cry and crank.

    00:39:48.60

    Like, as in my whole body is so tense and tight right now.

    00:39:51.64

    Like, I just want the ball.

    00:39:54.72

    And he was like, why I was like, well, we just passed that car accident.

    00:40:00.08

    Can’t you just feel all of that coming from there?

    00:40:02.76

    And he was like, no, I was like, damn, this is another reminder that this is not always a total generalized experience.

    00:40:13.44

    Some of this is really that, like empathic qualities, absorbing and so.

    00:40:19.48

    When you’re feeling those messages through your body, that’s Claire sentence.

    EK

    00:40:24.44

    OK, so yeah, it really has to do with like the five senses it sounds like there’s.

    CS

    00:40:29.04

    Exactly, exactly.

    00:40:31.00

    Basically a Claire for each sense.

    EK

    00:40:33.12

    Cool.

    00:40:34.44

    Yeah.

    00:40:34.76

    And so you talk about that in your spiritual mentoring program?

    CS

    00:40:38.12

    Totally, totally kind of helping people identify their strongest Claire and then how to work with the Claire’s with their clients as.

    EK

    00:40:46.84

    Well, oh, cool.

    00:40:49.04

    I know in some rituals that we’ve done together, you do bring in these, the different senses, like doing an art kind of like a intuitive art, like a painting or something, and definitely incorporating music and yeah, like, and I’ve of course been a part of a lot of your Reiki offering.

    00:41:07.92

    So that Daydream piece, like, I I get that.

    00:41:13.24

    Cool.

    00:41:14.16

    Yeah.

    00:41:14.72

    And then as far as like, and I know that in our work and we have already kind of talked about imposter syndrome.

    00:41:23.28

    But yeah, like this idea, like you said something about Peter Levine earlier or like, you know, him saying something maybe like legitimizes things as opposed to like if we believe in something, why isn’t that legitimate enough?

    00:41:36.68

    And it is Like the answer is that it is.

    00:41:38.32

    But we, we kind of like stop ourselves or block ourselves or say like, oh, I didn’t get the certification from XY and Z Place or whatever.

    00:41:49.72

    Yeah.

    00:41:49.84

    Do you want to just, like talk about that a little bit?

    CS

    00:41:52.68

    Yeah, yeah.

    00:41:54.00

    It’s.

    00:41:57.68

    I think that it took a while for me to kind of accept that as a spiritual entrepreneur, as a spiritual mentor.

    00:42:09.60

    It’s not going to come.

    00:42:12.28

    How do I want to say this?

    00:42:21.60

    The accolades aren’t the point, right?

    00:42:25.68

    And when I find myself getting caught up in, how do I make this more valid?

    00:42:31.56

    How do I make this more legitimate?

    00:42:35.08

    I remember that that is the desire of my ego and others egos and I am not here to feed my ego and I’m damn sure not here to feed the ego of others, especially man, especially old ass white men.

    00:42:53.08

    Please and fucking thank you.

    EK

    00:42:55.16

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:42:55.80

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:42:58.60

    And and so it’s like, OK, if I’m not feeding my ego and the ego of others, then what’s important standing in my truth.

    00:43:09.08

    Because on that will inspire others to stand in their truth.

    00:43:12.44

    And that’s the ripple effect that I want to have and going ahead and saying, OK, fuck society’s definition of success.

    00:43:21.52

    It’s OK if my parents don’t have something to tell their work.

    00:43:24.48

    Friends at the Christmas party about Chelsie received some award for being the greatest therapist.

    00:43:31.16

    Never gonna avoid that, even and.

    EK

    00:43:33.48

    Well, that’s we don’t know that that’s true.

    CS

    00:43:38.32

    You know, there’s summer universe out there where I’m standing on the stage right now saying thank you, thank you, thank you.

    EK

    00:43:45.08

    Well, maybe not from like, community mental health, but maybe you’ll get a an award from someone else.

    CS

    00:43:49.84

    Right.

    00:43:50.32

    Yeah, I’m I.

    EK

    00:43:51.88

    Know Who cares?

    CS

    00:43:53.28

    And in the end, right?

    00:43:54.72

    Who really fucking cares?

    00:43:56.64

    I actually just shared a post today about the creator of the Peanuts wrote this thing like name the last five Nobel Peace Prize winners.

    00:44:05.52

    Name the three most recent, like global Golden Globe winners.

    00:44:09.76

    Name these winners and it’s like most people don’t know.

    00:44:14.20

    Name the last person to make you laugh.

    00:44:16.16

    Name the last person who gave you a hug.

    00:44:18.84

    The achievements don’t matter.

    00:44:20.52

    The way people make you feel and how they care about you does.

    EK

    00:44:23.76

    Right.

    CS

    00:44:25.08

    So shout out Maya Angelou, Charles Schulz, thank you for that reminder that really it’s how we make people feel.

    00:44:33.60

    And if my definition of success is I make people feel inspired, then that’s what I want to do.

    00:44:41.40

    That’s my validity.

    00:44:42.92

    Somebody leaves my presence and they’re like, I’m inspired to heal, I’m inspired to play, I’m inspired to relax, then my work is done right.

    00:44:53.16

    That’s all the validity I need.

    EK

    00:44:55.08

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:44:55.84

    And so returning to that time and time again, it’s just a.

    00:44:59.88

    It’s literally it goes back to that whole making the choice, right?

    00:45:03.56

    Yeah, sure, I can make the choice one time, but it’s returning to it again and again that makes the difference.

    EK

    00:45:10.76

    So like and I know ritual is a big part of your work like so so making the the returning back to your purpose like is that part of your your ritual.

    CS

    00:45:19.92

    Oh, totally.

    EK

    00:45:21.08

    Well, purpose, well, we’ll put that in quotation.

    CS

    00:45:22.96

    Marks.

    00:45:23.16

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:45:25.32

    That’s definitely part of the ritual work that I do.

    00:45:29.04

    It it’s it’s so funny how it’s like, especially when I think about the your premise of returning home.

    00:45:37.72

    Right.

    00:45:38.68

    And the way that a ritual can help me do just that.

    00:45:43.96

    Like I started to like second guesslings last night after the opening ceremony of the become a spiritual mentor group.

    00:45:52.36

    I was like, was this good enough?

    00:45:54.28

    Was that good enough?

    00:45:55.40

    Oh, no.

    00:45:56.04

    Somebody is saying that.

    00:45:57.08

    They’re feeling intimidated.

    00:45:58.56

    Oh, no.

    00:45:59.20

    Another person is saying like, Oh my gosh, that was so much information.

    00:46:04.00

    Well, like, I’m pulling shit out of my ass right now, but, like, my brain was being like, Oh my gosh, all these things, right?

    00:46:12.16

    So finally, instead of just sitting there and trying to, like, numb it out through scrolling, I, like, got out.

    00:46:19.40

    I actually cleared off my altar.

    00:46:21.52

    Sounds like it’s a new year, the new moon.

    00:46:23.60

    It is time for a fresh altar.

    00:46:25.84

    Pulled one card to inspire my altar.

    00:46:29.64

    Created a new altar.

    00:46:31.12

    Made a fresh money bowl.

    00:46:33.28

    Pulled some cards, wrote in my journal and was like, oh, this is who I am.

    00:46:40.00

    That that girl 10 minutes ago.

    00:46:43.16

    I love her, but I am not.

    EK

    00:46:46.80

    Her right?

    CS

    00:46:49.00

    Yeah.

    EK

    00:46:49.72

    Speaking like the different parts speaking.

    00:46:51.60

    And then it’s like going back to that capital S self of like, let me let me return back to like square one, which is really my higher self.

    00:47:00.76

    My my last podcast episode, my guest said something about that.

    00:47:04.80

    She’s like, I don’t really believe in higher selves.

    00:47:06.52

    I believe we’re always our higher self, you know, which I’m like great.

    00:47:13.08

    Oh that’s my exiled little 16 year old that wants to fucking kill everyone.

    00:47:18.20

    Yeah, but but right like that we’re it’s always available to us when we when we take that that space, that pause between that trigger or that that part of our ego that’s really like can latch on to things and and criticizing herself is like very sexy for some reason, although it’s like the least sexy thing ever.

    00:47:40.24

    But like we all do it all the time, right?

    00:47:42.56

    But like taking that pause in between how that thing made me feel and like, who the fuck I actually AM, and like, let’s let’s get back to her, yes.

    CS

    00:47:53.28

    I love the I love the higher self, and I also really love the idea of like the favorite selves like.

    EK

    00:48:00.48

    Yeah.

    CS

    00:48:01.32

    And those feel so like multi dimensional to me like they’re.

    EK

    00:48:04.76

    So what do you mean by that?

    CS

    00:48:06.52

    Like, I have a favorite self that is me during a ritual and I am like, so magical.

    00:48:15.84

    I’ve got that Pythian energy like I’m full blast.

    00:48:20.72

    But then I have another favorite self who is just like in a matching pink sweatsuit eating some homemade puppy chow watching Bravo.

    00:48:30.40

    Like, I I love that.

    00:48:34.00

    Me like that, me knows.

    00:48:35.84

    She knows how to relax.

    EK

    00:48:38.56

    Right.

    CS

    00:48:39.64

    She’s not afraid to just laugh.

    00:48:42.16

    She brings so much humor in these crazy bitches she is watching on her TV screen.

    EK

    00:48:47.56

    Love, right?

    00:48:48.56

    And she’s not worried about, like, which tarot card have I pulled and how?

    00:48:51.88

    Like what is this crystal doing?

    00:48:53.76

    And whatever she’s like, chilling hard.

    CS

    00:48:57.12

    And sometimes the crystal and the cards are there with me.

    00:49:00.44

    Sure like it.

    00:49:02.56

    It just, yeah.

    00:49:04.24

    I think that as we’re talking about this, maybe I’ve placed a little bit of, like some hierarchical bullshit bleeds into the idea of like, the higher self, right?

    00:49:15.44

    Like, oh, she’s so like, virtuous.

    00:49:19.76

    But sometimes I’m not virtuous.

    00:49:23.48

    Sometimes like Doctor Taylor, Allison Swift said.

    00:49:26.92

    I talk shit with my friends.

    EK

    00:49:31.56

    Can I be mean for a second can?

    CS

    00:49:33.00

    I be mean for a second like.

    EK

    00:49:35.96

    They less, well, actually say so many more things.

    00:49:39.36

    Absolutely.

    00:49:39.88

    You can.

    00:49:40.52

    Yeah.

    00:49:41.00

    Or like when people call a therapist their gossip Dr.

    00:49:44.48

    and like, the tea is fucking hot in here.

    00:49:46.88

    You know, I love it.

    00:49:47.92

    I had a client.

    00:49:48.60

    Well, never mind.

    00:49:49.96

    I won’t go into that on the air.

    00:49:51.68

    You all, if you want to hear the tea, you got to come sit on my couch, you know what I’m saying?

    00:49:56.88

    But yeah, it’s a really good time.

    CS

    00:50:00.56

    For anybody listening, if you want to show up to your session with your therapist, mentor, whoever, and be like I have the tea for you.

    00:50:09.64

    We are so ready for it.

    EK

    00:50:11.56

    We came out with the cup is ready.

    CS

    00:50:13.36

    Bring a slideshow, have pictures, Show me the text thread.

    EK

    00:50:17.68

    Read me the e-mail.

    00:50:19.80

    I live.

    00:50:21.44

    I live.

    00:50:22.56

    It’s.

    CS

    00:50:22.76

    Called being witnessed, and you deserve to be.

    EK

    00:50:28.52

    And I am hanging on the edge of my fucking seat.

    00:50:31.56

    Like I am just like I am an empty cup whore whore, baby.

    00:50:36.72

    Like, that’s right.

    00:50:38.48

    Like not everybody has that in their life, like, and that, you know, as far as like friends and siblings and like all of that kind of stuff.

    00:50:47.20

    Like.

    00:50:47.48

    And that’s the thing I put right on my website is like, sometimes you need somebody to talk to and then, like, you call your friend up and then she now needs somebody to talk to too.

    00:50:59.00

    And like, I’ll tell my clients like some of my tea and I have, like, scorching hot fucking tea these last couple weeks.

    00:51:05.40

    And I definitely need to tell you about it.

    00:51:06.84

    But I’ll, I’ll like, I love that use of self as a therapist.

    00:51:11.48

    I’m like, yeah, there’s an A score of four over here.

    00:51:15.08

    Like, we’re definitely, like, we’ve got a lot of little, like, exiled parts.

    00:51:18.68

    Like, there’s things going on in here, and I’m not perfect sitting across from you, you know, But it’s like, I’m not, this is not like a give and take kind of a thing.

    00:51:30.20

    Like, you have an entire hour of, like, this is an empty cup for the tea, and I’m going to give you reactions.

    00:51:38.84

    I went to my therapist and I’m sorry if she’s listening, but I was telling her my tea and her reactions just weren’t giving what I needed them to give.

    00:51:47.36

    I was like, I need you to be, like, flabbergasted.

    00:51:51.16

    I need you to be like, jaw on the floor.

    00:51:56.20

    And I give that to my clients.

    00:51:57.56

    I’m like, know the fuck that bitch?

    00:51:58.96

    Did not just say that to you?

    00:51:59.96

    Like.

    CS

    00:52:00.44

    Just like I I used to get so many kudos for my poker face, and the most healing thing I’ve ever done was lose the poker face.

    EK

    00:52:10.04

    Right.

    00:52:10.68

    Who needs it?

    00:52:11.44

    We’re not playing poker.

    CS

    00:52:12.64

    Like I have it really your life.

    00:52:15.68

    I’ve had way more clients be like thank you for reacting than thank you for not reacting.

    EK

    00:52:22.04

    Right.

    00:52:23.04

    That’s like a lot of the feedback I get to where it’s like, wow, you’re really not like a regular therapist.

    00:52:28.48

    And I’m like, no fucking shit.

    00:52:29.80

    I was born in the 80s, OK?

    00:52:31.20

    Like.

    CS

    00:52:32.56

    I’m not a regular therapist.

    00:52:33.72

    I’m a cool therapist.

    EK

    00:52:34.92

    Yeah, girl, I know that that was like her tagline on her website and I was like, wish I thought of that first.

    00:52:41.64

    But OK, yeah.

    00:52:43.52

    But it’s so true about us, right.

    00:52:45.64

    So you know and that’s something I’ve I’ve enjoyed is working with people.

    00:52:52.12

    I mean my my clients range in age from I don’t know early early 20s up to like almost seven.

    00:52:58.52

    One of my clients is like 67 or something and she’s one of my just we have a great a great time.

    00:53:04.32

    But anyway, yeah, like, but I’ve really enjoyed being able to be a therapist for peers and, you know, like, we’re in the same generation and just be able to give them something that, yeah, like they don’t get from other they haven’t gotten from therapists in the past.

    00:53:24.84

    So yeah, like, what would you say?

    00:53:27.00

    I mean, I know you’re calling yourself a spiritual mentor, but you know, we have the therapy degree, We have the license.

    00:53:32.96

    Like what would you say is your biggest strength as that person holding space?

    CS

    00:53:43.36

    My biggest strength?

    00:53:46.60

    I feel like it’s evolved over time.

    00:53:49.28

    Yeah, ’cause I wouldn’t, like, back in the day, used to always just be my empathy, my empathy, my empathy.

    00:53:56.64

    But I think that my greatest strength really is my ability to both meet my clients where they’re at and hold the space of where they want to be and never give up on them and getting there.

    EK

    00:54:09.76

    Wow.

    CS

    00:54:11.24

    Yeah.

    EK

    00:54:12.24

    Yeah, that feels so good to as even somebody that’s worked with you.

    00:54:17.12

    It’s like, yeah, yeah, this is where we are today.

    00:54:22.32

    And like, even what we were talking about, you know, being here and looking back on your path and, like it makes total sense as to how you got here.

    00:54:30.32

    And and like the different obstacles or whatever you want to call them.

    00:54:33.24

    The thing, the lessons that we had to learn along the way to get us here.

    00:54:37.04

    And from that vantage point, like knowing that, I mean, life is just going to keep going until it doesn’t anymore, that the only constant is changed.

    00:54:46.44

    And so yeah, having faith that your clients can, can, and will move through life to get somewhere they actually want to go.

    CS

    00:54:55.16

    Yes, exactly.

    00:54:57.12

    Exactly.

    00:54:58.40

    And to just hold that unwavering for them, ’cause it’s so easy for us to just like give up on ourselves, right?

    00:55:06.32

    And so to be able to, like, have somebody in your corner that’s like, you can do that, but I’m still gonna care about you.

    00:55:13.80

    Sorry.

    00:55:15.08

    Like, that’s so nice to know.

    00:55:19.80

    Like, oh, I can fuck up and somebody is still gonna, like, give a shit about me.

    EK

    00:55:24.40

    Oh yeah, yeah, definitely right ’cause it can be so shameful to fuck up.

    00:55:31.00

    And like, who do you tell that to?

    CS

    00:55:32.88

    Yes, yes.

    00:55:35.28

    I think that’s one of the things I like about you know he he like here’s like a little place where you blend the spirituality with the like the psychology so unconditional positive regard right.

    00:55:47.72

    Thank you Carl Rogers shout out another white man giving validity to just being nice and but it’s still it’s a very important concept to understand.

    00:56:00.92

    And so when I take that unconditional positive regard and I blend it with like the spiritual perspective that one, all of these clients that I’m working with their souls signed up to work with me.

    00:56:13.44

    Our souls were like, yo, you’re gonna like reincarnate together.

    00:56:18.16

    But while you’re there this time around Chelsea’s gonna know a little bit more than you don’t don’t worry.

    00:56:23.00

    Next time you’ll know more than Chelsea and she’ll come to you and you, you’re gonna work together and you’re gonna help each other.

    00:56:30.52

    And so knowing that, like our souls decided that we’re gonna work together easy to give unconditional positive regard.

    00:56:39.76

    But then also like having the tool of prayer.

    00:56:43.64

    I think one of the things that really burnt me out from being like the traditional mental health therapist was like being told time and time again, just don’t take work home with you.

    00:56:53.56

    That’s not who I am.

    00:56:56.04

    I’m going to think about people I have a stake in their well-being.

    00:57:00.08

    Like I’m not going to be able to ever leave work at work.

    00:57:04.36

    So now I can pray for my clients.

    00:57:07.64

    I can pray not in the like, oh, I want them to receive the outcome that I want them to have, But oh, I’m worrying about them.

    00:57:15.76

    Oh Soros, could you just take care of them?

    00:57:18.08

    Soros bring at least some peace source giving Bobby some love, like having that tool to be able to like support that outside work and support that feeling of that unconditional positive regard.

    00:57:31.80

    Like, yo, I care so much about you and you can do whatever.

    00:57:35.92

    Like, I’m literally praying for you outside of our sessions is really like a beautiful meeting.

    EK

    00:57:45.24

    Yeah.

    00:57:45.88

    And do you talk to your clients about that?

    CS

    00:57:47.92

    Yeah, the when it feels relevant too, for sure.

    00:57:52.40

    For sure, yes.

    EK

    00:57:53.60

    Yeah.

    00:57:54.40

    And would you say that a lot of your clients, they’re coming to you for the like, they’re very attracted to what you do because you blend the spirituality in the psychology?

    00:58:05.60

    Or like does it mean more one way or the other?

    00:58:07.80

    Like do some of your clients just are more so interested in the psychology aspect or more so interested in the spiritual aspect?

    CS

    00:58:14.28

    I would say it’s the spiritual aspect that makes them be like, yes, I want to experience this kind of work.

    00:58:22.16

    I’ve done the traditional route like I want to see what this spiritual perspective has to offer.

    EK

    00:58:30.20

    Right.

    CS

    00:58:30.96

    I mean a lot of people in the consultation you hear that it we’re gonna be doing Reiki and pulling cards and they’re like and I’m like on until your guides give you the 10 of wands and the 10 of Swords and we gotta call you out on your bullshit.

    00:58:47.36

    But yeah fun fun.

    00:58:50.52

    So I would say it’s definitely the the spirituality is what calls them in and I think that that’s like important for me too.

    00:59:00.60

    Having the experience in community, mental health and not being able to choose like who’s on my caseload right, was total contributing factor to my burnout.

    00:59:10.00

    And so now I know that I work best with people who are aligned with spirituality in one form or the other.

    00:59:17.32

    They can just know they want to learn more about it.

    00:59:19.96

    They may have never heard of a chakra, They might not know what color Rose Quartz is.

    00:59:26.84

    It’s all good.

    00:59:28.20

    But definitely that piece is what makes them be like, yes, you’re the person for me.

    00:59:34.56

    And what makes me be like, yes, I think I am the person for you.

    EK

    00:59:39.24

    Right.

    00:59:40.40

    Totally.

    00:59:41.32

    It feels so good to, I mean and I’m still licensed by the, you know, the board and Virginia and everything.

    00:59:48.00

    And I don’t know if somebody and I don’t want to manifest this.

    00:59:50.56

    So I don’t know.

    00:59:51.08

    But like if somebody from the Department of Health and like found my Instagram and they were like you can’t do this, but like, yes I can you know and and that’s something that I hear from a lot of clients is that they do follow me on Instagram and they are like.

    01:00:05.92

    I like that.

    01:00:06.56

    I like that you’re an open book and you do that and, you know, sharing about what I’m up to or like the new tattoos I’m getting and like all this different stuff or like, you know, just sharing, you know, what I’m doing on a daily basis.

    01:00:21.76

    And do you find that for yourself, Like you people are like, they enjoy your kind of like the behind the scenes kind of stuff or?

    CS

    01:00:30.40

    I think it fast forwards the joining process tenfold.

    EK

    01:00:34.92

    Yeah.

    CS

    01:00:35.44

    I think having a presence on social media that your clients connect with, that’s like true to who they meet with when they’re behind the computer.

    01:00:43.64

    I mean, I think that easily takes up five sessions.

    01:00:46.48

    That’s how I feel.

    01:00:47.36

    I feel like we great.

    01:00:49.24

    You already know me, you already like me, and part of you even trust me.

    EK

    01:00:55.84

    Right.

    CS

    01:00:56.44

    And like no trust, right?

    01:00:58.04

    Those are the things that we need to build in order to establish some type of therapeutic rapport with people.

    01:01:03.04

    And sure, Yeah, I think that being able to see that, hey, I’m a human, hey, we have things in common.

    01:01:14.76

    Like if I get a person who’s like, I found you because you used the Taylor Swift song on your TikTok, I’m like, we’re besties already.

    01:01:23.84

    Let’s go ahead.

    01:01:24.88

    Like, let’s do this.

    01:01:27.00

    Yeah, I think that it really just catapults that joining process, and that’s crucial to any healing relationship.

    EK

    01:01:34.80

    Totally.

    01:01:35.96

    Oh my God.

    01:01:36.56

    On a On that note, I was with my cousin this past summer.

    01:01:41.80

    My mom had this party for Daniel and I, and so I my my cousin was there, and she’s a psychiatrist, and she works at Johns Hopkins.

    01:01:50.12

    She’s like, pretty legit and.

    01:01:53.40

    But her daughter is like 12 and she’s a Swifty and they’re going to Europe to go see Taylor Swift this summer.

    01:02:00.08

    They’re going to like Copenhagen or something.

    01:02:02.76

    And I was like, Oh my God, you have to see my therapist.

    01:02:05.92

    Chelsie’s like her, like you have this whole psychology, like the eras thing, but like.

    CS

    01:02:11.24

    Yes.

    EK

    01:02:12.28

    Astrology and psychology and all that stuff.

    01:02:14.64

    So I don’t know.

    01:02:15.08

    I think my cousin started following you, ’cause I was like, you will get it, You will like it, yes.

    01:02:21.64

    But yeah, like it is.

    01:02:22.80

    It’s just like, let us, like, let us live, you know, like let us just contribute what we want to contribute to the world like you want to make.

    01:02:31.84

    We’re feeling called to make this content.

    01:02:33.76

    And it’s like, why shouldn’t people be able to see it and see who’s behind it and, like, have a good experience with their therapist?

    01:02:40.72

    Like, why?

    01:02:41.24

    Why should that be against the rules?

    01:02:43.00

    Like it’s so backwards.

    CS

    01:02:46.24

    People are like we have a mental health crisis.

    EK

    01:02:49.80

    No fucking shit.

    CS

    01:02:50.76

    Yeah, maybe you should start with the Board of Fucking Mental Health.

    EK

    01:02:54.76

    Right.

    01:02:55.24

    Like, can we burn the DSM together?

    01:02:58.16

    Let’s ban that book.

    CS

    01:02:59.40

    Let’s burn the DSM.

    01:03:00.92

    Let’s burn standardized testing for becoming a therapist.

    01:03:07.60

    Let’s burn these like, have you heard about these?

    01:03:11.28

    The registries for if you diagnose somebody with autism.

    EK

    01:03:15.04

    Oh, what?

    CS

    01:03:16.64

    They’re like certain states.

    01:03:17.88

    New Hampshire is one of them.

    01:03:19.72

    And that’s where I saw, like, people starting to talk about it, ’cause that’s where I went to school.

    01:03:25.52

    And it’s like, yeah, if you diagnose somebody with autism, you, they’ve got to be registered and holy shit, everybody.

    01:03:32.48

    Maybe you should cut that, because I haven’t done like a ton of research into it and I don’t want to be bursting some conspiracy, but like, but yeah, like, at least it’s why?

    01:03:46.80

    Why?

    EK

    01:03:48.60

    Yeah, why?

    01:03:49.84

    It’s really weird.

    CS

    01:03:51.04

    It’s really fucking weird.

    01:03:52.88

    But like, even the creators of the DSM are like, hey, this is to like, help people, not insurance.

    01:03:59.84

    And now all we use it for is insurance.

    EK

    01:04:02.44

    Right, right.

    CS

    01:04:03.52

    All we.

    01:04:04.08

    I mean that’s one.

    01:04:04.84

    That’s one of the reasons why one of my like scopes of practice as a spiritual mentor is I do not do diagnosing.

    01:04:11.64

    Like if somebody’s coming to me and they want a diagnosis and that’s that’s become way more common now than it was like a few years ago, it’s so interesting how things ebb and flow, right?

    01:04:22.20

    Like, I feel like for a while at least when I was going to grad school, it felt like the reducing and eliminating the stigma approach was like, fuck the diagnosis, fuck being put in a box.

    01:04:35.64

    Oh, you just deserve to be helped.

    01:04:37.56

    And now people are like, Oh my God, put me in a fucking box.

    01:04:42.04

    Tell me what box I belong in.

    EK

    01:04:44.36

    But they only want to be in the ADHD box.

    CS

    01:04:49.32

    Whatever box is remote trending on TikTok at that time.

    EK

    01:04:52.40

    Literally, I was like, maybe you need to go on TikTok and look up some things because, like, that’s not what I’m I’ll sit with the DSM with people sometimes, and I’ll be like, all right, let’s read through the criteria.

    01:05:03.24

    Does this sound like you?

    01:05:05.40

    Yeah, we’re going to go with a No.

    01:05:06.40

    OK Like, can we move on?

    01:05:07.92

    Like, TikTok isn’t real.

    01:05:14.00

    Not to say that like there there’s tons of creators that they’re, you know, they know what they’re talking about, But there’s also tons of creators that are just creating and they aren’t qualified to create what they’re creating.

    CS

    01:05:27.68

    And not every behavior needs to be pathologized.

    EK

    01:05:31.12

    Right.

    01:05:31.60

    Can we just let ourselves live?

    01:05:33.44

    Like, can you just have quirks?

    01:05:36.92

    Can you just do things differently?

    01:05:39.48

    Like is why is it?

    01:05:41.24

    Why do you want to fit into a white supremacy, patriarchal world anyway?

    01:05:45.68

    That’s not like that’s what that’s trying to do is say you have these things.

    01:05:49.68

    So here, let’s put you in this box according to what’s normal in quotation marks for like, the white man.

    CS

    01:05:57.32

    The similarities between borderline personality disorder and hysteria are very interesting and telling.

    01:06:05.20

    And especially when you start to look at the statistics of who’s diagnosed with overlying personality disorder, it’s women.

    01:06:13.00

    And so are some of these things pathological or are some just because a white man decided he didn’t really like that?

    01:06:23.56

    And so let’s go ahead and create a test and a label for it so we can say you.

    EK

    01:06:30.32

    Right.

    CS

    01:06:31.16

    And for some people, they see the TikTok.

    01:06:34.12

    They get inspired to get the diagnosis.

    01:06:35.84

    It changes their life.

    01:06:38.00

    We’re not talking to you, We’re so happy for you, but we’re talking to all the people who are just like trying to find what diagnosis fits them as they scroll.

    01:06:47.48

    And y’all just being human is.

    EK

    01:06:49.52

    Hard.

    01:06:50.36

    Yeah, exactly.

    01:06:52.36

    Yeah.

    01:06:52.68

    And so, like, it’s not even to, like, throw shade at those people or our clients that want that.

    01:06:56.68

    It’s like, got it.

    01:06:58.72

    But also, like, love.

    01:07:00.52

    Try loving yourself first.

    CS

    01:07:03.88

    And drinking some water and taking it.

    EK

    01:07:06.48

    Like you’re literally fine.

    01:07:08.32

    Like you have so much to live for.

    01:07:09.88

    You have so many friends.

    01:07:11.12

    You have so much like, going for you.

    01:07:13.00

    You’re beautiful, you’re smart, you’re this, you’re that.

    01:07:16.36

    Let’s not.

    01:07:18.88

    Let’s just, let’s just love ourselves.

    01:07:20.92

    Let’s practice some self compassion.

    CS

    01:07:23.64

    Returning to strength based approaches rather than symptom based.

    EK

    01:07:29.40

    Right, right.

    01:07:31.44

    Yeah, that’s what I try to do.

    01:07:33.12

    And it’s, you know, yeah, I think.

    01:07:35.08

    I think a lot of people are here for that though, like most people.

    01:07:38.20

    And you know, I said I asked one client recently or like on an on a discovery call, you know, have you ever been diagnosed with anything?

    01:07:46.32

    Do you take medication And that kind of like made her go, you know, like, no, definitely not.

    01:07:51.56

    That’s definitely not what I want.

    01:07:52.84

    And I’m like, oh, no doubt like don’t get it twisted.

    01:07:55.72

    Like, I don’t do that.

    01:07:57.64

    I don’t, I’m not even, I’m not a doctor.

    01:07:59.76

    Like I can’t first.

    01:08:00.52

    I’m just asking, you know, based on the things that you’re saying.

    01:08:03.20

    But yeah, I think like, and especially in this spiritual world too, there’s a lot of you had said something about a conspiracy theory earlier.

    01:08:14.12

    You know, COVID kind of brought to light all of these, like, these Wellness kind of concepts that kind of overlap with conspiracy theories and, you know, this whole law of attraction thing.

    01:08:32.92

    Like, you manifested your illnesses and like all of this stuff.

    01:08:37.36

    What’s your experience like with.

    01:08:40.12

    I thought we had to go too deep into this.

    01:08:42.28

    But yeah, just like it.

    01:08:43.28

    Is that something that comes up like in your DMS on Instagram or like in your programs, like our people maybe in the Gabby Bernstein stuff, like maybe that.

    01:08:52.40

    There were some more people like that in there, ’cause she has like such a huge, wide reach.

    01:08:56.00

    But yeah, like what?

    01:08:59.40

    What’s been your kind of experience with that?

    CS

    01:09:03.48

    Yeah, I think that I’ve.

    01:09:08.80

    I’ve felt very lucky that I have really attracted people who are on like the same page as me when it comes to this type of stuff.

    01:09:17.08

    Like they’re like, oh, that’s feeling a little icky.

    01:09:21.48

    Like what’s coming to mind right now is the Starseed thing, right?

    01:09:26.36

    Like, OK, people being star seeds.

    01:09:28.52

    People being aliens.

    01:09:31.68

    If aliens are part of your spiritual practice, fuck yeah, I’m not denying the existence of aliens.

    01:09:38.08

    And do I See how we’ve taken this idea of star seeds and turned it into like another supremacy thing?

    01:09:44.52

    Like, oh, only the most special of people are Star Seed race.

    01:09:51.64

    Come here to bring Earth to the five dimensional.

    EK

    01:09:55.16

    Raise the vibration.

    CS

    01:09:56.72

    To build the new world and and I’m just like and so I will have.

    EK

    01:10:02.88

    Sometimes.

    01:10:03.40

    Like Adolf Hitler?

    01:10:05.20

    Like I.

    CS

    01:10:05.52

    Mean.

    01:10:06.32

    I mean, like, it’s like, you look at pictures and you’re like, oh, so none of these star seeds are black.

    01:10:15.76

    Oh, huh, Interesting.

    01:10:19.32

    This feels a little slightly racist.

    EK

    01:10:22.48

    Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that.

    01:10:24.64

    I have this one client my this older and she’s and she’s into star seeds but she’s also anti VAX and I’m like oh but into Reiki and into EMDR and like all these different things And there’s just like yeah like but right we one thing that is for like we you and me maybe NASA and maybe like the White House and the CIA like have different abilities.

    01:10:59.20

    We can’t prove whether there were aliens.

    01:11:01.56

    I’m sure somebody knows the truth.

    01:11:03.92

    I mean and Native Americans forever have been saying like the Southwest is like the place you know.

    01:11:11.84

    But yeah like I’m not gonna like you said I’m not gonna sit here and say aliens do or don’t exist.

    01:11:17.36

    I mean well I will say they do exist.

    01:11:19.04

    I can’t imagine they don’t honestly.

    01:11:20.76

    Like the word.

    01:11:21.24

    The universe is so big, but and like, who are humans to say that we’re the only intelligent beings?

    01:11:27.52

    But yeah, it’s also like, let’s just deal with, like, what’s going on here?

    CS

    01:11:34.24

    Like, we are all here at this time because we’re all equal, right?

    01:11:39.76

    Right.

    01:11:40.32

    We are not all here at this time because you’re Starseed meant to for the new world.

    01:11:46.28

    I think what freaks me out the most about the Starseed conversation is when people not just using it for those supremacy reasons, but use it as an excuse to not be here on this earth anymore.

    EK

    01:12:01.80

    Oh, do you hear about that?

    01:12:03.00

    Like people do they commit suicide?

    01:12:05.04

    Yes.

    01:12:06.20

    Really.

    01:12:06.56

    I haven’t heard that.

    01:12:07.56

    Yes, so.

    CS

    01:12:09.48

    Huge thing on TikTok that I’ve had some interesting experiences with is the concept of spiritual psychosis.

    01:12:18.12

    And that’s the idea that basically learning these spiritual ideas will send you into a psychosis.

    01:12:23.36

    Oh, and so there was a creator who said that she’s a Starseed and that she’s just not meant for this Earth anymore, and that she wanted to go home.

    01:12:33.76

    And so she committed suicide.

    EK

    01:12:35.72

    Wow.

    CS

    01:12:37.00

    Yeah, I apologize for saying committed suicide too, not using the word committed with it.

    01:12:42.16

    So with the cause, did you know that they used the word committed because it used to be considered a crime.

    01:12:48.72

    So like you commit murder, you commit suicide.

    01:12:52.44

    And so that’s why I thought there’s like some push to be mindful of our language around that and to not use the word commit.

    EK

    01:12:58.88

    Well, thank you for bringing that up.

    01:13:00.48

    I didn’t know that.

    CS

    01:13:02.48

    The more you.

    EK

    01:13:03.48

    Know.

    01:13:03.88

    Yeah, exactly.

    01:13:05.56

    Yeah.

    01:13:06.36

    The one’s the way to say it then.

    CS

    01:13:11.32

    Finished.

    01:13:11.76

    Suicide.

    01:13:12.72

    Oh, completed.

    01:13:13.68

    Completed.

    01:13:14.48

    Completed.

    01:13:15.76

    Yeah.

    01:13:16.20

    Took their life.

    01:13:16.96

    Yeah.

    01:13:17.96

    It’s important to use the word suicide.

    01:13:19.44

    Probably completed suicides.

    01:13:20.96

    Probably the way to go.

    EK

    01:13:23.20

    OK.

    01:13:23.80

    Yeah.

    01:13:24.16

    Well, thank you for that.

    01:13:25.16

    I did not know that.

    CS

    01:13:25.92

    Yeah, yeah.

    01:13:29.92

    Did you learn about collaborative language systems in your grad program?

    EK

    01:13:35.56

    Probably OK.

    CS

    01:13:37.40

    It was one of the bigger postmodern theories that we learned about that I bring into a lot of the spiritual mentoring work.

    01:13:45.72

    And I think that like this conspiracy theory idea is where that work can come in handy.

    01:13:52.16

    So being able to focus less on the fact that they believe in this conspiracy theory and focus more on developing a language that’s value based and helps them really kind of lock into the story that they want to be living in their life.

    01:14:15.64

    So I’m trying to think of how I think the twin flame thing might be easier than at first.

    01:14:23.32

    I wanted to try to give an example with the anti vax conversation.

    01:14:27.44

    But like the twin flame conversation, being able to say like being able to talk with the client about like what is a healthy relationship, What is the importance of a romantic relationship in your life?

    01:14:38.60

    What have you been told about romantic relationships?

    01:14:41.00

    What have you witnessed?

    01:14:42.56

    And being able to kind of work together to create a language that is true to them but doesn’t reinforce these harmful beliefs that they are having about the world, Yeah.

    EK

    01:14:56.60

    Well, yeah, that sounds very, yeah.

    01:15:00.72

    Strength space makes somebody look inside at their own values at what it is, like you said the life that they want to be living.

    01:15:07.64

    Like, OK, so this is the idea.

    01:15:10.00

    And like, why?

    01:15:10.80

    Like, what’s the what’s more at the root?

    01:15:12.52

    What, what drives you forward towards that?

    01:15:15.40

    What attracts you to that?

    01:15:16.60

    What makes you desire that for yourself?

    01:15:20.72

    Yeah.

    CS

    01:15:21.36

    Exactly, ’cause once we get down to that, most of the time we’re all on the same page, actually.

    EK

    01:15:26.64

    Right, Yeah.

    CS

    01:15:28.72

    Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s also been nice to bring this work into like the spiritual world too, because I think for so long there was such a like you can’t be on meds.

    01:15:43.08

    If you want to be spiritual, you can’t take, like, psychiatric medication.

    01:15:49.56

    It’ll dull your gifts.

    01:15:51.40

    You won’t be as in touch.

    01:15:53.92

    I’m like, bitch, that pill is a spell.

    01:15:57.28

    It is a literal spell in a pill.

    01:16:00.52

    And if you are feeling called to it, then source was like, yo, you’re gonna sign up for some lessons, but I’m gonna hook you up.

    01:16:11.56

    There’s gonna be this pill.

    01:16:13.20

    This is what it’s called.

    01:16:14.68

    Somebody’s gonna prescribe it to you, and I’m going to be here cheering you on the whole way.

    01:16:20.28

    It might even make you feel closer.

    EK

    01:16:22.96

    Yes.

    01:16:23.68

    Oh my God.

    01:16:25.04

    I recently just got on a new medication and and that was something I think for the last several years I was so against.

    01:16:34.68

    And like the Joe Dispenza stuff like your whole, your body is the pharmacy and like whatever you need, your body’s going to make and all that kind of stuff.

    01:16:42.40

    And I used to, like, really buy into that.

    01:16:44.72

    And I just ended up, like, getting really freaking depressed.

    01:16:49.88

    I was on Wellbutrin for a long time, got off of it really fast, like, just kind of cold Turkey years ago.

    01:16:57.56

    And then, like, just the last several years have been this like, journey of, like, what do I need, you know?

    01:17:03.64

    And so then I was going to the doctor for a completely different thing.

    01:17:07.28

    And I was like, and I’m depressed, but I bet you can’t help me with that.

    01:17:11.64

    And she was like, get your life first of all.

    01:17:15.04

    Second of all, I can absolutely help you with that.

    01:17:17.80

    And so yeah, I started a new medication at in early November.

    01:17:21.04

    And I mean like I am a whole new bitch.

    01:17:25.20

    Like when I say I am her, like I was like, please and yeah like I think that there is this thing about and this ties really perfectly into the anti Vaxx thing because people are like there’s I mean and and not trusting the government worrying about what’s in the vaccine which is like COVID, like coronavirus has been a word and a thing for decades.

    01:17:50.88

    It’s not new.

    01:17:52.68

    They had a vaccine because it’s been around for like 20 years and like but this is whatever.

    01:18:00.60

    But yeah, like being, I love what you said about it being a spell.

    01:18:04.92

    Because yeah, like, sure, does big Pharma have all of our best interests at heart and all of that?

    01:18:09.64

    Like, I don’t know.

    01:18:10.52

    But I do know that people are really smart and scientists and these drugs go through trials.

    01:18:17.60

    And like, I’m not going to say I trust the government 100% like nobody should because like, why?

    01:18:23.84

    But I mean, I’ve been taking this medication and I’m like literally doing so well.

    01:18:30.92

    Like, it’s just like if you’re depressed, you take the medication.

    01:18:34.76

    The same way that if you had high blood pressure you would take a medication.

    01:18:37.72

    The same way that if you injure yourself at the gym or sitting too long in your meditation, you would take an ibuprofen like or a Tylenol or whatever is your thing.

    01:18:47.80

    Like, I don’t know, I I think that people almost want to like and there is this like hyper independence around things.

    01:18:54.20

    It’s like a very American idea in this way of like I should just be able to cure it myself For what?

    01:19:01.92

    Like you literally can’t just think your way out of depression.

    01:19:04.76

    That’s actually going to probably make you more depressed, I’m actually here to tell you.

    CS

    01:19:10.12

    Like there, there is no shame in getting the support that you need.

    EK

    01:19:15.84

    Yeah.

    CS

    01:19:16.64

    And medication can be a part of a holistic approach to treatment.

    EK

    01:19:22.20

    Holistic literally means, like, well-rounded, right?

    01:19:24.96

    It’s like everything, not just what the holistic psychologist is saying, right?

    01:19:31.64

    We do need to pray for her, by the way.

    01:19:34.52

    But yeah, like, it means everything.

    01:19:37.76

    Like, let’s look at all all the way around.

    CS

    01:19:41.36

    Exactly.

    01:19:42.32

    Like, I’m never going to sit with the client and be like you are experiencing this solely for spiritual reasons.

    01:19:50.00

    Like, no, we’re gonna talk about the spiritual, we’re gonna talk about the physical.

    01:19:54.20

    We’re also gonna talk about the society that we live in, right?

    01:19:58.24

    Because that needs to be taken into account.

    EK

    01:20:01.88

    Like you literally didn’t invent the fact that it’s hard to live here.

    01:20:06.80

    Like, it’s hard to live because people make it hard to live right.

    CS

    01:20:10.20

    And so why not go ahead and bring some fucking magic into your life, right?

    01:20:15.16

    Like, why not have some time in the morning where you’re pulling cards, feeling connected to this magical source, and you’re not fucking worried about what bills are being automatically withdrawn that day?

    EK

    01:20:26.32

    Right.

    01:20:27.28

    Literally.

    01:20:27.80

    I mean, they’re willing to go to Harry Potter world and spend $200 to get in there.

    01:20:32.04

    I know you need some magic in your life, girl.

    01:20:34.28

    Come on.

    CS

    01:20:35.08

    Huh.

    01:20:35.32

    We can show you how to bring it every single day.

    EK

    01:20:37.96

    Yeah, you don’t need to just go to Florida.

    01:20:40.00

    First of all, how is magic even allowed?

    01:20:41.72

    Did not outlaw of magic in Florida.

    01:20:44.80

    But also like, yeah, you are definitely allowed to like build a little altar in your house and get yourself a deck of cards and they don’t need to be given to you by some like Elder witch.

    01:20:56.64

    Buy them on Amazon.

    01:20:57.76

    Literally, we’re on Kickstarter.

    01:21:00.96

    My friend Katie is always finding like the coolest decks on Kickstarter.

    01:21:04.12

    I’m like I need to start doing that.

    CS

    01:21:05.72

    Oh, I love that.

    EK

    01:21:06.64

    Yeah, right.

    01:21:08.12

    Like you’re allowed to live your life the way you want and try new things.

    01:21:12.64

    And like you don’t need permission.

    CS

    01:21:15.80

    Exactly, exactly.

    01:21:17.96

    And fuck anybody that tells you there are rules to being spiritual.

    EK

    01:21:20.84

    Oh my God.

    CS

    01:21:21.68

    My biggest ick.

    01:21:22.92

    My biggest spiritual ick.

    EK

    01:21:24.52

    Right.

    CS

    01:21:25.08

    Rules of spirituality?

    01:21:27.00

    No.

    EK

    01:21:28.28

    Right.

    01:21:29.48

    And it’s like so backwards.

    CS

    01:21:33.08

    Exactly.

    EK

    01:21:33.92

    Which really makes no sense exactly.

    01:21:36.72

    Well, good thing that people have you too.

    01:21:40.56

    We’re just.

    CS

    01:21:42.44

    Out here pave in the.

    EK

    01:21:44.00

    Way.

    01:21:44.88

    Yeah, right.

    01:21:46.92

    Good for us.

    01:21:47.72

    Good for us.

    01:21:49.88

    Cool.

    01:21:50.36

    Well, was there anything else?

    01:21:51.64

    Like when when we talked, you know, I had reached out to you about being on the podcast.

    01:21:56.80

    Was there anything else that you felt like you really wanted to address that we haven’t talked about yet?

    CS

    01:22:06.16

    I think that I just really want to solidify for anybody listening that it really is about a balance of being, like wildly spiritual and wildly human all at the same time.

    01:22:21.84

    Like when I thought about your, like, your question of like, OK, what makes you like, return to home?

    01:22:26.28

    Like what?

    01:22:27.12

    What’s that feeling?

    01:22:28.40

    And my first response was like this, very like poetic.

    01:22:32.20

    And it’s like the spiritual thing I was like, but also like being at a concert with hundreds of other people and like feeling that connection as we’re all singing the songs and we’re all got tears in our eyes.

    01:22:46.52

    And I’m like, wow, that that’s a home feeling to me.

    01:22:52.16

    Like, it’s a very spiritual, but it’s also so human being there at that show.

    01:22:58.28

    And so, if you are trying to live a more spiritual life, don’t give up your reality TV.

    01:23:06.04

    Don’t give up your swearing.

    01:23:07.84

    Don’t give up your chocolate.

    EK

    01:23:09.72

    What?

    01:23:10.04

    Literally.

    CS

    01:23:10.48

    You you can be spiritual and have all of those things.

    EK

    01:23:15.92

    Yeah, I love that.

    01:23:17.96

    That’s such an important message in our in our day and age too.

    01:23:21.24

    And kind of like you were saying about like, somebody having rules.

    01:23:24.48

    There’s like all this policing around what we can and can’t do and like how what we call ourselves and all of that.

    01:23:30.12

    I know when I was working with you and there was like that whole drama about this person in Richmond that was like that whole cult of spirituality thing.

    01:23:37.40

    And it was like, Oh my God, can we not, like, can you just freaking relax?

    01:23:44.00

    And and even, like, as a Reiki practitioner, you know, there’s this whole thing about like, well, you’re not Asian, you’re not Japanese.

    01:23:50.60

    Who do you think you are?

    01:23:51.52

    And I’m like, do you go to yoga?

    01:23:53.20

    Like, also, who cares?

    01:23:57.64

    Like, I mean, nobody cares.

    01:24:00.40

    I don’t.

    01:24:00.76

    I I don’t know why people get so.

    01:24:02.52

    And I’m not trying to say that to be, like, culturally insensitive.

    01:24:04.92

    I think, like, if I have something that I think I can bring to that modality or like, that I have to offer to my clients and to the world around me, like, why not?

    01:24:16.92

    I’m not, as long as it’s not hurting anyone.

    01:24:18.92

    Kind of like those questions that you were asking earlier around, like, does it want to harm you or does it feel expansive?

    01:24:25.08

    Like, does it feel harmful or does it feel like it’s actually something that can help people?

    01:24:33.92

    Yeah.

    01:24:34.12

    I think that, like, this whole cancel culture really has people afraid to, yeah, express themselves.

    01:24:42.20

    Maybe in ways that are like, unconventional or out of the norm.

    01:24:48.24

    They don’t want to like, ruffle feathers, but like, ruffle your feathers, girl.

    01:24:52.52

    Like, go on.

    CS

    01:24:54.64

    I literally just shared a poem the other day of like go ahead and put your rubric away like I’m so done.

    01:25:01.60

    I’m so done with keeping track of Did I post about this topic enough?

    01:25:06.64

    Did I post about that topic enough?

    01:25:09.32

    Did this person see that I posted about this topic?

    01:25:12.44

    Does that fucking matter?

    01:25:14.00

    Or should I just be, like, doing things that are gonna actually make a difference in the world?

    01:25:19.64

    And yeah, I I think that by being so focused on like the the cancel idea, cancel culture, we’re missing out on connection culture, right?

    01:25:32.40

    Like, fuck, what would connection culture look like?

    01:25:35.04

    Like, how much fun would that be if like, we were just super excited to share shit with each other and to connect and to understand and not to be like, yeah, and I mean, y’all.

    01:25:49.52

    We know there’s a spectrum to all of this.

    01:25:51.48

    Like there’s some things are absolutely, yeah, don’t appropriate that culture in that way.

    01:25:58.68

    Yes, And and when it comes to matters of the spirit and of love, we should do everything in our power to come.

    EK

    01:26:11.24

    Together, right.

    01:26:13.84

    I don’t think you can appropriate love, right.

    01:26:17.04

    Like, you actually can’t because we are all capable of it.

    01:26:21.60

    It’s everybody’s, right.

    01:26:24.60

    Yeah.

    01:26:25.88

    Yes.

    01:26:27.16

    And.

    01:26:27.40

    And I mean, like, I talked to my last episode about like that deserving language and like, yeah, but everybody deserves love, you know, It’s it’s not something you have to earn.

    01:26:41.68

    It’s not something that you have to, like, go through a certification.

    01:26:45.12

    Like everybody deserves to feel it’s already there.

    01:26:48.88

    It’s like, if you can return home and unpeel all those onion layers like it’s love that’s on the inside, like, get close to that.

    01:26:57.92

    The world is going to be a better place if we all could just be there, yeah?

    01:27:05.16

    It’s a Snaps moment.

    CS

    01:27:06.32

    That’s such a snaps moment.

    EK

    01:27:09.16

    Yeah, cool.

    01:27:10.64

    Well, I’m so glad you were here.

    01:27:12.24

    Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

    CS

    01:27:15.20

    Thank you so much for having me.

    EK

    01:27:17.28

    Yeah, and let’s I know we’re going.

    CS

    01:27:21.60

    To Do you want me?

    EK

    01:27:22.88

    To Well, OK, I’m going to edit this part out.

    01:27:26.40

    All right Chelsea.

    01:27:27.60

    Well, if there is anywhere that people can go to find you, like what are your links, I’m going to get all those links from you to put in the show notes.

    01:27:34.48

    But if you just want to share on here, like how people can work with you, how they can find you, like what’s the best way to interact with you?

    CS

    01:27:41.48

    Yes, you can find my website chelseascavera.com if you spell that correctly on your first guest.

    01:27:47.96

    You are so fucking intuitive and I should be booking a session with you.

    01:27:53.40

    That’s DHELS i.e.

    01:27:56.20

    SKOWYR, a.com and Chelsea Scavera for all the social media handles Pinterest, Instagram, TikTok, and then I’m also on sub stack.

    01:28:08.40

    So if you want to find me over there, I’ve been releasing about like A blog post a month and it’s basically inspired by one of my own journal entries and sharing my emotional processing and spiritual connections and all that stuff with whoever wants to read and enjoy.

    01:28:23.68

    But yeah, I have all the information on how you can work with me right on my website.

    01:28:29.24

    If you’re interested in receiving spiritual mentoring, might become a spiritual mentor group is closed for now, but I think I’m gonna open it back up in about 6 months for the next round.

    01:28:38.72

    Oh cool, yes, yes.

    01:28:40.80

    And then I do Reiki and hopefully I can find a home to host my next retreat, because I am like anxious to host my next retreat.

    EK

    01:28:50.32

    And I will be there.

    01:28:52.16

    Yeah.

    01:28:52.28

    Hawking Hills.

    01:28:53.20

    We need to talk about it.

    01:28:54.24

    Oh, my God.

    01:28:55.00

    That was amazing.

    01:28:56.20

    And Daniel and I went back.

    01:28:57.32

    I have to tell you.

    01:28:57.96

    Oh my God.

    CS

    01:28:59.40

    Yes, yes.

    01:29:00.76

    So just.

    EK

    01:29:02.40

    Follow that website Man if.

    CS

    01:29:04.64

    That’s a good spot for a retreat because it’s all happening.

    01:29:08.88

    Cool.

    01:29:09.40

    Yeah.

    EK

    01:29:10.12

    Well, thank you for being here.

    01:29:11.36

    Thank you for sharing all your beautiful gifts for being you.

    01:29:15.08

    You’re like such an amazing person, light spirit in this world.

    01:29:20.04

    But like, we all need.

    01:29:21.40

    So I’m really glad we were able to make this happen.

    01:29:23.72

    And yeah, just keep, keep sharing all your your beautiful art and everything you do.

    01:29:29.12

    Thank you.

    01:29:30.24

    Yeah, of course.

    01:29:31.24

    Thank you.

    01:29:34.04

    Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode.

    01:29:37.20

    I hope that you learned a lot.

    01:29:38.60

    I hope that you got inspired.

    01:29:40.92

    And if you enjoyed what you heard, please go ahead to Apple podcast and leave a review.

    01:29:47.28

    Rate US five stars.

    01:29:48.76

    All of that goes a really long way.

    01:29:50.92

    So thank you so much for listening.

    01:29:52.60

    And we’ll look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

    01:29:55.20

    Bye.

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  • EMDR and Your Spiritual Ecosystem: A Conversation with Sophia Hornyak

    EMDR and Your Spiritual Ecosystem: A Conversation with Sophia Hornyak

    Meet Sophia Hornyak in this interview on Returning Home: The Podcast. Sophia is a mother, writer, akashic teacher, and occult historian. Driven by her own traumatic upbringing, she has a personal practice of researching occult and mystic philosophy to find the bridge between the spiritual and the meaning of self. Her work is grounded, raw, and places the importance of resonance in the hands of her students and clients. In this episode, Sophia shares about the powerful work we did together in EMDR sessions, her views on spiritual bypassing, her upcoming Trance training in the UK, and she discusses her terminology “Spiritual Ecosystem.” Healing doesn’t mean erasing yourself or your experiences, it means integrating the past with who you are now and who you have always been, and who you are becoming.

    Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

    1. Hear from Sophia and the exciting progress she made during EMDR treatment.
    2. To learn what Sophia means by Your Spiritual Ecosystem.
    3. To discover upcoming events where you can meet Sophia and learn from her.

    Resources

     

    Transcript:

    SH:”So I thought about it and I there was a proverb that I ran into and it was if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together. And it’s an African proverb and it hit me really hard and it just sat in my mind over and over and over again. And I think that if we are going to like it’s microcosmic and macro cosmic, right? So it starts with us and if we are going to change the paradigm in which we want our society to live in, it has to start with us.

    Podcast Intro: Welcome to returning home the podcast. My name is Elise Kindya and I am a trauma informed and intuitive therapist. This podcast is a space that I have created for you to discover a deeper understanding and love for yourself, which leads to expanding what you think is possible in your own life. My goal is for you to feel excited to live your life as your full authentic self. By listening to these episodes, you will learn things like how your brain works. My favorite resources for healing stories from my own life practices that you can press play on to add to your healing tool kit and so much more, I invite you to return home to yourself in big and small ways to live the life you desire. On your terms, you can live connected, empowered and aligned. When you return home to yourself. Anything is possible. I can’t wait to share all of my insights with you. Now, let’s begin. 

    EK: Hey, this is Elise Kindya, your host of Returning Home The Podcast. Welcome back. And today I have a really special episode with a special guest. Her name is Sophia Hornyak and she is a mother writer, akashic teacher and occult historian driven by her own traumatic upbringing. Sophia has a personal practice of researching occult and mystic philosophy to find the bridge between the spiritual and the meaning of self. Her work is grounded raw and places the importance of resonance in the hands of her students and clients. I can’t wait to share this episode with you. We had such a great conversation. So keep listening and I hope you enjoy. Um And I am here with a very special guest. Her name is Sophia Hornyak and she is a lot of things. She reads the akashic records. She is a psychic, a medium and she’s here to talk about a really special experience that we had together as well as some of the work that she does in the world. So I’m really excited to have this conversation with you.

    SH: Thanks for having me.

    EK: Thank you for being here. And yeah, we were just talking before we started recording about like, uh my kind of anxiety around. You’re, you’re my past client, like confidentiality and all of that. But, you know, it’s, I was really flattered when you, um, filled out the application and made the appointment because or, you know, booked our time here to be here together because, um, I think it really does speak to like the power of the work that we did do. And um yeah, I was just flattered and I was excited to have this conversation with you because I know, you know, before we started our work, you really wanted to step out more as your full self. And now after doing E MD R, I’ve seen you, you know, when we were in sessions together one time, I was like, I’m going to start following you and I did and I saw this like huge kind of like progression and take off. So I was really proud of you for that. So, yeah, do you wanna like, where do you wanna start right now? Like, do you wanna start with the E MD R process or more about what you’re doing currently or?

    SH: Yeah, I mean, it’s funny because when you started following me, I like immediately text my best friend. I was like, “I think I won therapy.”

    EK: You won?

    SH: I went there and I was like, this is I went. Um, no. Yeah, I, when I first stepped into this office, a lot of it was because I had a debilitating panic disorder and I’ve been through a lot of severe abuse growing up and I’ve gone to various talk therapies. I’ve, and being a, um, and a classic teacher, um, you know, I’ve done like, quote shadow work, which I really hate that term because it denotes work for an outcome. And I really don’t feel that healing is that I think that we have this like really western way of looking at healing as eliminating an issue versus finding harmony with it.

    Um And, you know, I really struggled and E MD R had come up a couple of times with various therapists. It was like, I would get in there and they would be like, have you tried E MD R? And I was like, why is my stuff bad? But a best friend of mine who is um currently getting her phd in psychology, she did it and she’s like, dude changed my life. Um And she obviously knows where all the dead bodies are, right? So she’s like, you should probably do this. So, um it was funny, like I went and got a massage and it was the first time I had a somatic experience where like I, I remembered something when they were working on my fascia that had never happened to me before.

    EK: This was after you did EMDR?

    SH: No, this is before. And I was walking here to go get coffee and I saw your sign and it was like EMDR Reiki. And I was like, I think this is up my alley. So it was kind of like, you know, I call it your spiritual ecosystem. And I was like, it’s like my ecosystem was speaking to me. So when I came in originally, what I thought I was doing was I was in the process of unveiling memories that I didn’t know I had anymore or I didn’t even realize that I have blocked out a lot of my childhood and through therapy, I learned that, you know, my body did that to kind of save me.

    So here I was like, maybe I’ll just like reveal some stuff or, you know, get these memories out, but I didn’t really have too much expectation for it because I, I just felt like if I keep getting directed to it, then this is probably what I need to be doing. So, um in the process of it, I was like, I think that first time we did it, I was surprised at how quickly I cried. And I think that people that have been through severe trauma probably struggle to show emotion in front of other people, right? And so I’m like, in the back of my head, I’m like, I pay her to watch this. It’s ok. It’s ok. You’re OK. Get your money’s worth it seriously. But, you know, it was an immediate response and I’m like, how the hell did that happen so quickly? That first session I cried all the way home and, but it was like a good cry. It was like something popped open. Um, excuse me. And I, you know, the thing that really got me was, I mean, we were just talking about this before the podcast, like, in the process, you’re supposed to like have somebody kind of like step in for you and I had myself step in for myself and it was mind blowing to see myself in such a different light because for so long, I’d always known myself to be resilient, strong, tough, all this. But I got to see myself in such a completely different light, soft, nurturing, loving as a mother. And it really blew my mind.

    EK: Let’s slow you down for a minute. So for somebody that’s listening that doesn’t know what you’re talking about and stepping in for yourself, what do you mean by that?

    SH: So, in the process, I mean, maybe you can talk about this, but in the process you are. So I guess you’re supposed to have like a safety person like it while you’re walking through the memory to sort of, I guess, be your safety and to provide something that you needed in that memory that you didn’t actually get right and so instinctively outside of or, or like, you know, I just thought I would have my grandmother step in or somebody like that. And when I chose myself, I was a little surprised, but I just went with it. Um And so to see that I provided safety and comfort for my inner child. Um And also like to see, to see the people that were abusing me in a completely different light as an adult. So it’s like, it’s weird, I don’t know how to explain it. But when you’re looking back, you’re like, these things happen. I don’t know, you know, whatever. But then you are in this memory and you’re like, what is wrong with you? There was something completely wrong with you. This isn’t, it’s like you’re facing it in a completely different light. I, I really don’t know how to explain it but you kind of the playing field is different, I think, you know, instead of me looking from the bleachers or the nosebleeds going like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they played the game and then let’s get out of here before everybody gets to the parking lot. I’m on the field going like, ok, no, we’re moving left, you’re closer in it. You see it from a different point of view. It’s just an interesting process that I just, I don’t know, it’s hard to explain, but, well, right.

    EK: So part of what the way EMDR works and what’s so beautiful about it is that bilateral stimulation when it, when the headphones were on and you are having those tones in either ear, your eyes moving and seeing the dots on either side and uh the buzzer like those the, I think they are touch points in either hand. Um What that does is it keeps the left side of your brain online seeing the memory as well. So when we go through trauma, we flip our lid. As Dan Siegel likes to say, there’s this, he does this hand model of the brain to explain to parents and to Children about what happens when we go through trauma, the left, the left side of our brain, which is the prefrontal cortex, the thinking part of our brain, it takes the most energy from us. So in order to live through trauma, that part can’t be receiving any uh stimulation because all of our energy has to go to our limbs either fight flight, freeze fawn. And when you’re a kid, that part of your brain isn’t even really formed yet anyway. So you cannot think logically about trauma because the logical part of your brain didn’t go through it, right? So E MD R is keeping that part of your brain awake alive and that, you know, in the memory,

     that part of your brain is going through that memory for the first time. So that’s an interesting way to put it like you’re in the bleachers versus on the field. And you’re like these players are moving in the wrong direction like that. That’s not where coach put us. Like, what are you doing?

    SH: Totally. Yeah. It was like, yeah. And, you know, I didn’t know that. Obviously, I’m like, you know, this is why you go to a professional, but I was just like, how did I not see this? This is like, logically speaking, I should know this but because I, because knowing this now, scientifically, like going back to it, it was just wild to see it. And it also switched my relationship now, like how I interact with the people, the abusers or whatever because I see them in a completely different light.

    EK: Interesting how has that changed? I know we just got out of the holidays. So did you see these people throughout the holidays?

    SH: So like my father lives in Vietnam, my stepmother I have or ex stepmother don’t have any relationship with my mother lives in Pennsylvania. We like text but we’re not, you know, that relationship is what it is and I’m ok with it, you know, um but in how I view them and how I see myself in relationship to them or in relation to them, I feel like it’s changed the dynamic and it’s changed truly the power structure of it because there’s a lot of weight that I think an abuser or even just a parental can hold over you and it doesn’t matter how old you are, they can hold it. And now that I see it in such a different light. They don’t have any power. There’s no power. So especially if my father who can be very domineering and command everything and whatever like I am like you pitiful, sad man.

    EK: So pre EMDR there was still that you held him in that way in your mind of like he was still powerful domineering like you felt subordinate to him in a way in your mind?

    SH: It it’s like I would be like, he’s so frustrating to me. He’s so annoying to me, but I don’t want him to be ashamed of me. And there’s definitely he could wield that a little bit like you’re not doing good enough, which is crazy. Um But now I’m like, you’re a liar, you are not who you say you are, you, you know, it’s just you’re not authentic, you know, there’s just things, it just, yeah, it switched the dynamic. There is no power. I’m an adult. I have my own family and I actually take care of my family. So yeah, it completely changed how I am in relationship with them, 

    EK: internally and that’s we live in our minds, right? Like we, we see the world out of our goggles like you have the Sophia perspective on and, and sure, like I’m sure with what you do and being a mom and being flexible and all of that, like we can, it’s always possible for people to see things from another person’s perspective. But like you live in your mind with your, you have your inner monologue, you have your thoughts, you have the way that, you know, your values, the way you approach life. And so yeah, for you to have space in there to not give your dad that power over you just even in a, like, that’s like a more subtle energetic way, like that’s more and I wonder if that kind of goes into like, the work that you do more. So. But like, yeah, you’ve been able to reclaim that like, inner space and then there’s just so much more room for the true you and your actual passions and the things you actually care about to flourish. Like now you have a beautiful, like, feel that you can sew with all of your Sophia stuff as opposed to crappy dad and crappy, all that stuff.

    SH: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, um, in between the sessions, you know, we talked about like, in between the sessions are hard, like, none of this is easy to do, especially when you, you have like intense, like complex ptsd. Um, in between the sessions is really hard because you are reliving the sufferer the first time and you’re processing it, you’re actually processing it. You’re not just sticking it in a closet and going, ok, let’s just keep going. So, everything crumbles, but the crumbling is the foundation that you built. Your, especially as an adult. You know, I’m 38 years old. I’ve built my whole life on this foundation and it crumbled it, which is such a beautiful tower moment. It is good, but it is hard and it allowed me to really get rooted, allow myself to really create the foundation that I want to move forward on. And it gave me a stronger sense of confidence, not like a confidence out of survival, but a confidence out of living. And it allowed me to be extremely present rather than act out of experience. And experience does feed into your confidence. But the experience has changed now because I’m seeing it in a different light. So I think that it’s like easier you get through the hard stuff and then you can move so much faster, you just move things along, you can attain things that you want to, you don’t have somebody in the back of your head saying like this person’s going to leave you or this isn’t going to work out or, you know, because that stuff’s not true and you see it that way and it was just like crazy to me and you know, in what I do. Um You know, I’m, I’m involved in the spiritual community, but I am definitely a, a dog whistle.

    EK: What do you mean by that?

    SH: Um I definitely move against the grain of what I would call pop spirituality is, you know, like manifesting and all of this stuff, you know, things that are, I feel are money grabs and there’s a lot of spiritual bypassing and this idea that like, move past it, let it go, let go of what doesn’t serve you. Ok. Well, then how do you do that? You know, like, everything’s not so simple and being spiritual doesn’t mean being fully healed. That’s why I really dislike that term healing. Because what are you trying to do? Are you trying to get rid of it or are you trying to like, find harmony within yourself, find some way to process it, find your balance, find your footing. And I think that when I did this before without therapy and I worked through shadow work and I worked through all of this stuff. Yeah, it’s still, there was still progress, but there is definitely, you know, this idea, I see it all the time where people are using pop psychology like terminology and it’s incorrect and it’s damaging people and it’s definitely sending people on the wrong path. And so what we do, what we see are people that are on the spiritual journey, but they’re just adding more work because they’re not being able to attain an expectation of being calm and at peace and balanced and healed. And that’s just not what it is because we are spiritual beings, having a human experience and that’s part of being human. And so um with my work and the clients that I have and the people that follow me, they know I am very much real. I definitely say what’s on my mind and I’m very clear about like, hey, all this stuff is not easy, but that’s ok. You know, when you go to a reader and they’re like, you need to do this. No, you don’t need to do anything. You can do it whenever you want. You know, 

    EK: there’s no timeline

    SH: there’s no timeline, time doesn’t even exist. And the whole case of it is that you have agency and I think that E MD R allowed me to see how much agency I have. So yeah,

    EK: that’s a snaps moment because yeah, I mean, and that’s even why you’re in the seat to begin with because there was these people in your life that told you like you’re a piece of shit. You don’t have any agency. We’re going to do XY and Z to you and you can’t do shit or say shit about it. And then we internalize that way and I say we, because why am I even sitting here? Right. Totally. And I say that to my clients all the time. I’m like, I’m not, there’s no planet on which I’m perfect. Holy shit. But um yeah, like having to, I mean, and we talked about this a little bit like unlearning.

    There are these societal things that get placed on us by our families, by our parents, whoever our communities are, the people that raise us really. And maybe in ever widening circles going out from that. But yeah, like how do we become the individuals that we become? It’s not like we’re just born and we just happen in this vacuum, like we become socialized. But in that there is the chance when we, when our conscious, when we become more conscious, when we, I mean, like to use pop, you know, spiritual terminology when we raise our vibration, right? Um But like when we learn more about who we are by kind of taking that shit off of us, we, we do realize like I do actually have some power and I’m OK with that, I’m OK with being powerful. 

    SH: Yeah, I think that I think that is a very important aspect of it. But I also think another part of it is being imperfect is perfect and you know, a lot of people kind of grow up trying to succeed and trying to meet an expectation placed on them that doesn’t work. And in relationship, how many times are we let down? Because we placed an expectation on somebody else. So I do think that in the process, even though it took the power away from my dad and my abusers, it also gave me a sense of grace and that grace flipped. So in the relationship, I’m just like, you know what you did, what you thought you could with the best that you could. It is what it is. But it also gave me a sense of grace with myself and how I deal with my partner and my friends. Like, if you didn’t call me back, that’s fine. You got busy. It’s not a big deal. And it’s not like I’m telling myself, don’t get mad, don’t get mad.

    It’s not, it’s just genuinely there now. And I think that’s what we all should strive to have is that grace on ourselves to not push ourselves so hard and not push everyone else in our relationship so hard because we’re just reflecting it right? And I think that socially, you know, we’re talking about in the western world where we live in a capitalist society where we are burning ourselves out where we are working really hard for things that we cannot attain that, that like grace grows into. I’m going to give myself a little space because I don’t really need to do that right now and it grows into, you know what? Maybe we don’t need that. So let’s just take these days off and that grows so it like folds and you know, I did something that I was kind of blown away that I did like on New Year. Um So I am going to the UK to take my trans mediumship training.

    EK: I saw that on Instagram. I want, we definitely need to talk about that. Oh my God.

    SH: And I still have this panic disorder. So I am traveling by myself for a week to the UK and I’m staying in this old building in a room with a roommate that I don’t know. So this is really putting myself out there. 

    EK: when is it?

    SH: I leave on the 17th of January. Yeah.

    EK: Oh, my God. In 11 days?

    SH: 11 days.

    EK: So good for you. Another snap moment.

    SH: So, I looked at my finances. I booked it. It was so resonant and it was just, like, logically speaking, is out, intellect, is out even intuitively. It didn’t even make sense, but I felt I needed to do it. So we did it. And then I was like, fuck my finances. I have kids, I have daycare, I have a mortgage, I have whatever. So I’m like, what can I do? Nobody’s booking with me, you know, my class of course is coming out and it’s not nobody but it’s just like, and then the holidays and whatever. So I thought about it and there was a proverb that I ran into and it was if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. It’s an African proverb and it hit me really hard and it just sat in my mind over and over and over again. And I think that if we are going to like, it’s microcosmic and macro cosmic, right? So it starts with us and if we are going to change the paradigm in which we want our society to live in, it has to start with us, right? So in order for me to do that, I have to not only give help, which I’m comfortable doing most of us are I have to learn how to receive help. So I put out a call to my community and I wrote an email and it took me 2.5 hours –

    EK: Was that like a long time?

    SH: Yeah, because I was like and deleting and typing but I was cringing.

    EK: I know you’re quick.

    SH: So maybe, yeah, but I was cringing but cringe is good because cringe means I care. So I was like, I need to get this up. This is important. I got to lean into the cringe.

    EK: Cringe equals caring

    SH: cringe equals caring. So I was like, I’m going to put out a call in my community and just be up front. This is what I want to do. I want to invest in myself because if I invest in myself, I can turn around and teach this stuff and invest in my community. So I’m asking my community, share my stories, show up for me if you can, if there’s somebody and people showed up and it was awesome and it was so cool and you know how things happened? People started. They were like, hey, do you give readings? Which normally I don’t do one on ones, but I was like, you know what I will because I need to raise the money and people started booking classes, people just Venmo me tips. They were just like, you know, because I, it was like, can I cuss on here?

    EK: Of course, who the fuck are you talking?

    SH: So in my email, I was like, you know what? “Fuck it we ball” and the amount of Venmo that I got that wrote “fuck it we ball” and there’s 20 bucks here. They were sweet, you know, and it just like it was, you know, I, I’ve done gofundmes for other people but it was just like, I didn’t do a gofundme but it was just nice that people were like, “hey, do you have anything coming up?” “Hey, do you have this?” “Do you have that?” And it made me, you know, the, I had somebody, I had somebody send me a lot of money and they were like, “I believe in you and I believe in this work” and I cried fully wet in a towel that

    EK: You had just taken a shower?

    SH:  And I looked and I was like, oh my God. And we were a

    EK: perfect place for it.

    SH: Yeah, like rebirth, right? But um it’s just like allowing me to soften because I saw myself in such a soft way and it’s allowing me to like open up in a way that I don’t think I’ve ever opened up before. And it’s really allowing me to truly experience presently the world and see that I do have agency to change it from where I stand and I think that E MD R had a heavy hand in that.

    EK: That’s so cool. Yeah, I mean, it’s like, that’s the understatement of the world. But it’s like, yeah, you, you’ve always been a whole human being but you weren’t allowed to feel all of that. You weren’t allowed to be a kid when you were a kid, right? You weren’t allowed to cry when you were sad. You weren’t allowed to complain when something was wrong. You weren’t fed when you were hungry. Like I mean, there’s a lot of things that um you didn’t get to experience your full humanity. And so now having been able to see yourself from that perspective, it’s like, oh no, like sure I am a bad ass and I am fierce and I am hard working and I am resilient, but I also deserve just as much as you would look and see any member of your community that you would want to help. They are looking out at their community and you’re one of those people and you deserve that help too.

    SH: Yeah. And I think that there’s a lot of this conversation around deserving in the spiritual community like you deserve. You have to believe especially around manifestation, which I really think is rooted in capitalism because we want to, we want to manifest a thing or a money or a partner. And I’m not saying those are bad things like we’re here to enjoy our lives. But now we’re telling people, you have to believe that you deserve it. But where, because spiritually speaking, your intellect is removed. When we are working with the akashic field, we are working with spirit. When we’re working, we’re working with the heart, we’re working with the soul and the intellect can only like can only process a story that has been told. So if you have been told this story, your whole life that you don’t deserve this stuff, then you know, positive mental attitude is not going to change that because that’s not the story that intellect knows. So you have to find a way to have your intellect take a sea and let the heart ride. And I really think that E MD R helped me get into that place where I just needed help doing that is,

    EK: did it feel like you were before EMDR? And with the other tools that you were using it was like, you tried to think your way out of the problem and there was just no thinking?

    SH: Well, I think where I was in my practice, I knew I was out of thinking, but I was also kind of like, well, how do I get deeper? Because I know that my survival instincts are kicking in. So I know that the primal part of my brain is going like, “but you’ll die,” like, “you can’t enjoy a friendship like that you’ll die,” you know. So that’s what my body was doing. And so in order for me to move forward, I had to look outside of spirituality and I had to look and I don’t think that psychology is not spirituality. I think it’s fairly seeped in it, but it’s just a different way of looking at things. And so I really needed that help to do it. And that’s the other kind of gripe I have with spirituality is that it’s like it should only be this way. But we have so many tools at our feet and the world is at its height of like, what is you’re being berated with? So like, why wouldn’t I use, you know, the akashic field? Why wouldn’t I use my psychiatrist? Why wouldn’t I use my SSRIs? Why wouldn’t I use acupuncture? You know what I mean? We have, it’s just got to be right for you. And that’s where resonance really kicks in. Does this feel right? Does it feel comfortable? And so I blend the two because this is my ontology, this is my reality, you know, that I live in a western world and I do believe in some Eastern concepts. So why wouldn’t I use both?

    EK: I’ve heard you say the spiritual ecosystem, I’ve heard you talk about, you know, like the akashic field and your work with that. Let’s switch gears a little bit and let’s talk about what you have coming up, and this trance training and like all these different things like, tell us more about the will. Yeah. Well, just like what turns you on and excites you and what you’re doing in your life now because when we met you were working in beer.

    SH: Yes. So I was still, well, you were doing all the things I have. Divine void. I’ve had divine void since 2000 eight.

    EK: That’s your business name- Divine Void?

    SH: Divine Void. so I had worked in beer for close to a decade and working in sales marketing branding. And so I found myself going in and out because-

    EK: and if you don’t follow Sophia go do it because her shit is so pretty. Your Instagram, like the images that you make are just so I just love everything about it. Like I love the colors. I love the fonts. I love how it’s so like, like there’s just something really beautiful about your, your, your art. It’s just

    SH: Yeah. Um Yeah, Libra. So um so I always had that in, in, you know, in my back pocket. And so when things weren’t really going well and you know, the process of me working in spirituality has had its up and downs because I kind of look at things like I think socially speaking, we look at things as a formulation and there’s like, um there’s definitely people that are big manifest, you know, people on the internet, they’re like, look to somebody as an expander. But when you look to somebody that’s doing what you want to do, you’re taking their formula and you’re saying you did this, you did this and that equals success. So what it does is continuously puts you in a box. And so I started out doing that, right? I was like, oh, maybe people want to do tarot, maybe people want to do this. And pink, pink is more accessible. You know, if the girls love pink millennial, pink because I’m an elder millennial. 

     

    EK: I mean, you and I have a very similar aesthetic that’s for sure.

    SH: So, um but then I was like, this isn’t me. And so I slowly was developing in who I was. But in that process, you know, people didn’t get it, they didn’t understand what I was putting out, they didn’t get what I was doing. And, you know, my aesthetic moved darker which, you know, I, I love it, I love Southern Gothic. I love that kind of stuff. So and I was so seeped in like, I love the chaos. I love the shadow. I love the darkness because I’m not afraid of it. So let’s go in there. Um But when you’re, when you’re trying to do something that’s never been done before, you’re going to take a lot of L’s and there’s definitely times where I just wasn’t making money. So like I would be like, OK, I’m going to go get a job doing this or I’m going to uh work in branding or you know, whatever.

    And so when I came in here, I was contracting with a brewery in Richmond and I was doing their, their branding. Um But I could feel the anti residence and anti residence is in your body like that. I feel sick. I feel angry anytime I have to go to work or any time I get an email and what that indicated to me because I’ve done this for so long was like, I don’t need to be here. This is not in my path no matter how much money they’re spending, no matter how much money is in my bank account, like I just can’t do it. And so when the universe took that out of my path, stuff started rolling and I really feel that um I finally have carved out my place in the spiritual community as an outsider, but with so as somebody that people identify with.

    So um what I do is people might I know the akashic records I have practiced for a really long time. I’ve worked under Dr Linda Howe and I’ve taken my teacher training with Helen Vonderheide, but I do not call myself an akashic records practitioner or teacher because to me that is trying to put a context around something that is unbound and ever evolving. So when people are like, it’s a library with all information that you can get. Well, that’s very intellectual based. So what you’re describing is psychic and that’s psychic work but the Akasha is the akashic field is the ether. All it is the Akasha. That’s what it’s called in Hinduism. And when you look at the, the levels of bodies that a person has, you know, you go from the, the mental body, the emotional, the physical, um the spiritual, the ether, the akashic field. So I work with the akashic field, which is completely different than records.

    We go into this library and we grab all the information that you could ever need. This is more than information. This is a lens, it’s a lens to look at how we live and how everything at our fingertips is spiritual. So when I talk about the spiritual ecosystem, you know, people talk about like seeing signs and synchronicities and all of that. Well, when you are working with your spiritual self, I think a lot of people look to it as an escapism, right? So they’re like, oh, I want to meditate or I get a lot from clients like I feel disconnected, I don’t feel my spirits. I don’t feel my guides, whatever. And so they like they do ayahuasca, they go to sound baths, they do whatever and these things are not bad. 

    EK: She says, as she looks at my over at my singing bowls.

    SH: I mean, I have a whole set too, but these things aren’t bad, but some people use it to escape their life and that’s not even that bad. It’s the same reason why people drink you know, it’s kind of, that’s fine. But what I’m trying to show and teach and what other practitioners that I uh I’m very close with show is that like this is a part of your life period. So, right, so this is macro micro, this is in and out, you know, that is the occult axiom, you know, and

    EK: as above, so below

    SH: as within. So without, so everything when you start working, say it with a guide or with your higher self. But I don’t believe in that. I think we are our highest selves. And then, you know, you look at the field that you are in and there’s, there’s been like um there’s, you know, Stanford did a bunch of research around the energy fields and the energy fields that we have. So when we come into contact with people, we exchange energy and it changes, right? So that happens with the stuff around you that happens with anything that has spirit that happens with the birds that happens when you know, if a piece of paper is in front of you, if you believe that everything is spiritual and everything has some kind of energy to it and which I do because the universe is all energetic –

    EK: and human hands made all the stuff that’s around us.

    SH: Anyway, they’re putting their energy, correct anything that comes into your system is spiritual, but it’s not necessarily that it’s just you just as you walk into somebody’s system, just as you walk past the dog, they are also affected by you. So it’s an ecosystem, it’s a balance. And so what I try to teach people is that you don’t have to be in transient meditation to achieve anything or to, you know, get information or whatever this is all here. It’s all here in front of you. And if you integrate it into your everyday and you see it as a lens that is here in your everyday, it becomes extremely powerful. So it’s funny because amongst other akashic teachers and practitioners, I’m kind of a weird because I don’t really go to the records. I don’t go anywhere. I’m just like, no, this is what it is like, I already know I step into your ecosystem and this is what I’m getting. But right, like, and, and, you know, you and

    EK:  You and I are similar in that way where, you know, I’m a clinical social worker. Like, I don’t, I don’t know any other therapist that’s interviewing one of their past clients in their podcast. It’s not really like the way things are done, you know, but I’m like, who gives a shit? The way things are done is garbage if we look at the world. So let’s just, let’s just see the unicorns that we are. So, so if the spiritual is just like in the mundane, like it’s in the every day, what’s something that you would tell somebody who’s listening? If they’re, if they don’t get it or if they’re skeptical, like, what would be something that you would tell them, like, one small practice they could do today to, like, yeah, get into that a little bit.

    SH: So, one of the things I like to tell my clients is like, when they’re, like, I’m having trouble bridging to a thing that they want or bridging to, like, say, like, oh, I really want to get a new job, but I’m too scared to go do that or I want whatever start and it sounds so mundane and boring. But if your friends are like, oh, let’s go somewhere and you’re the kind of person that’s happy to go along, you make the choice, it starts small and as you do it, the choice about the restaurant to go where you use your voice, you do it claim the thing you want, right? If your partner is like, I don’t know, what do you want to watch? And you’re normally like, I don’t know, what do you want to watch? You choose? 

    EK: So my poor husband has to watch Project Runway. Christian Siriano could literally dress me in anything. And Karly Kloss needs to relax because nobody feels bad for your 6’3” ass. Ok? But anyways, I feel that yeah.

    SH: So I love because the voice is a really powerful spiritual tool, having agency or just choosing because you make the choice, right? That’s ultimately what this is all about. So when I, when I did do more frequent readings, a lot of clients would come to me and they would say, well, I don’t want to make the wrong choice. So you can’t make the wrong choice. You can’t, because anything that happens, happens to your benefit. So even if it’s awful, you’re coming away with it with something in your toolbox. So, for example, if somebody has a terrible relationship and they’re like, you know, I don’t know what to do, I don’t know how to trust whatever. Well, now, you know what you don’t want, did you know that beforehand?

    You know, so I just am constantly looking for the silver lining and I think that that has allowed me to show that to other people. And so that small practice is huge because it builds slowly into something bigger. Now, you believe that you can do it. Now you believe you can get another job. Now you are going to make that choice and you’re going to work on your resume and that sounds so not spiritual to the most spiritual people, but like this is spiritual, that’s what it is. And it’s kind of amazing considering like I work in one of the most esoteric levels of spirituality in the aggression field. And I am an occult researcher, but the way I talk about life is grounded because it doesn’t, none of it matters if it’s not grounded, none of it matters if we can’t live a spiritual life and that is just being who we are. Yeah.

    EK: Like you said earlier, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Like we have to be in these bodies and they do put us through these, you know, sometimes really traumatic experiences. You know, you said something a minute ago that I wonder and it’s something like, and you had talked earlier about spiritual bypassing. But then there’s also, and I have to walk a really fine line in my work around. Like, did you attract that experience to learn a lesson from it? Like, what’s the lesson, you know? And um are we all responsible for the trauma that we have in our lives because we wanted to learn that lesson and it’s like a fine line there.

    And I wonder how you deal with that in your work because yeah, like I can find and I have a wide range of clients, some of my clients are really into spiritual stuff and want to talk about life lessons and did my soul attract this? And then I have other clients that are very like, what is the scientific research behind what we’re doing right now? You know, where are all the evidence based and the peer reviewed journal entries and all of that stuff? So and so I kind of like have to, I feel almost like I’m juggling, I’m the magician, you know, I’m constantly like, this is what this work means to me and to us in this room right now.

    But yeah, like, how do you, um, do you, when you’re working with people, how do you manage that? Kind of like, yeah, I don’t want to call it victim blaming because that’s not what it is. I mean, I think that we are, I, I’m kind of on the same mindset as you where it’s like, yeah, we, if it’s not this, it’s that we’re having human experiences, everyone’s going to die. No one’s getting out of this shit alive.

    SH: Nothing is cruelty free, right?

    EK: Nothing is cruelty free.

    SH: So, um so what I would like to say about people that are like, because there is a part of the spiritual community that is heavily like science and great, that’s awesome. But here’s what I want to offer is that before there was science, there was alchemy and there’s experimentation before you can get any kind of result. And in order for you to experiment and to find a result that will be sufficient enough to fulfill whatever it is that you’re looking for some validation, there has to be faith. So ultimately, at the bottom of science is faith hypothesis and whatever you want to call it, that’s what it is. I think this might, this might happen. Let’s see. I hope that this happens, right? Where there isn’t belief, we have to use faith to bridge the gap.

    EK: And that’s a really good point. I think that that is really important to remember now because that Neil Degrasse Tyson.

    SH: But here’s the other part of it is that because we are human beings in the western world, we do love science, right? So, if science is going to help you believe in something great, I’m not going to fight it. I think that’s awesome. It helps me believe in some things too.

    EK: Um, we vaxxed in here, right?

    SH: But like we can’t know everything that has ever been that ever will be. And that would be really egotistical if we really thought that we could, right? And so when it comes to things like spirituality, when it comes to things like, like ultimately, we can create whatever it is that we want. So even though, you know, you have these accolades and you are a professional therapist, you have the agency to create whatever modality that you want with whatever tools that you want. And that is part of our divine essence. It doesn’t have to be shown. We don’t need the, the formulation and I had this conversation with one of my mentees last night. We were doing our one on one check in and she’s like, “you know, with what I do, I don’t see anything out there.” And I’m just wondering, and I was like, “well, hey, you’re attracted to me, right? We’re working together and I built something out of nothing.”

    But I think that that’s what the world wants because we are becoming so homogeneous and there is just nothing beautiful, there’s nothing, you know, when you see something, right? And we thrive on this idea of being unique, but we’ve become like straight out of the box, right? Um So that’s that. But when it comes to clients that are like, “did I attract this?” Did I do whatever the Akashic perspective is, we choose how we choose our family, we choose how we want to show up in the world. We choose our path. So we chose this now how you want to process it as a human is up to you. So you know, I believe that when people, when you have an Akashic perspective, you can believe and see the perspective, but you can still have your human perspective.

    So the akashic perspective would be um your abusers did the best that they can, but they were, they were just emulating something that they had gone through and it allows you to give empathy and grace where it needs to be done. But my human perspective can be like, “fuck that person. They were horrible who would do that to a child.” And you can hold two beliefs at once. I don’t think that you have to hold fully one. So that is how I work with clients. I can say the Akashic perspective is, you know, this is, this is why it happened. You chose this. This is for your highest good even though it doesn’t feel good. Um this will make you resilient or this will make you, it will be a base of understanding how to like, for example, why was I in beer sales? I, why did I do that for so long? Well, now sales and marketing, that’s how I created my brand, right?

    EK: So that was just the venue for you to learn how to do that, right? So it could have been any other venue, but that’s just what it was.

    SH: And I had a meltdown when my business wasn’t doing really well. And my husband was like in the past year, you taught yourself how to code, create your own website, graphic design. You taught yourself how to do a podcast, you taught yourself how to edit video like I would say that you had a pretty good year. So we we forget the good stuff, right?

    EK: And even though it didn’t look exactly how you wanted it to look and then we were like, oh shit, we are the same person. I mean, everything you’re saying, it’s like, yeah, I can relate to that because I got this office in April and I’m like, oh I’ve had, this is my slowest year in business ever. Da da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, whatever, bitch, you have a whole ass room with all my sand tray stuff with a singing bowl with the Reiki table with this beautiful, with this whole setup like literally like this is the first place I ever lived in Richmond was on Mulberry Street. 221 South Mulberry Street. This was like my little stomping ground over here. This was my shit, you know. And yeah. So, but it’s been such a whatever year and then I’m like, oh, right.

    SH: But when we think about prosperity and abundance, we think about material things, but that’s not what it is. You can be abundant in the fact that you are feeding your soul something that nobody else can give you. And I think that that’s what it’s about, right? And once you have that and once you lose that, that’s when the stuff starts attracting, that’s truly what manifesting is. But you know, I think that, that, that the Akashic perspective when you, and let me take a step back. I think that holding that perspective, learning that perspective, ultimately, what I’m doing is just looking at people and saying you have these gifts, you have these abilities, you have whatever creation, whatever way that you want to express yourself, it’s there. I’m just offering you a way to understand that there’s no wrong way. And I think sometimes when we take off the bumpers, we just want to know that we can bowl, right?

    EK: Yeah, that’s such a cool way to say it. Thank you. Wow. Wow. I feel like I learned so much and yet I’m like there’s still so many questions like I mean, so I had said earlier when, when I, you know, I was kind of introducing you and there, there’ll be a different introduction after I’ll read the one that you actually wrote. Um about being like psychic medium are those words that you don’t really?

    SH: Uh Yeah, so I, I describe myself as a channel channel. Um because I do channel, which I think to like annoy me is like, what’s the difference? But a channel is, there’s, there’s various ways of working with spirit. Um You can either do automatic writing, it can be expressed through art or it can be direct voice where you are allowing them to take over your voice. It can be mental mediumship, which is they’re speaking in your mind and you’re just verbatim saying it. So that’s what I do. I’m a channeler and I’ve seen. So this is the trance work that you’re going to be doing too.

    So I started working with trance on my own, which can be a little dangerous. But I had this crazy wild experience three years ago where these beings, I was in the hypnagogic state, which is, it is said to be when you get the most messages right in between sleep and awake. That’s when all the weird stuff happens, right? And um my dreams are always off the wall. So somebody told me to turn off my dream portal and I was like, I don’t want to do that because that’s how I speak to spirit. That’s how I get everything you say, someone told you to turn it off another reader, like somebody that I trust. So it’s like a therapist, goes to a therapist. I go to another reader but I did it. And when I did it, I was in the hypnagogic state. So I was aware that I was laying down sleeping by my husband.

    But I could see this almost like prism crystal building like in the sky and it felt like home. And that’s the only feeling that I had. And then there was like something I could feel it pushing down in the top of my head and I was trying to speak out of my mouth and every time it did, my lips would get really tight and like a language would come out that I didn’t know. And I’ve dreamed in other languages and I always know what language it is. Um Yeah, I’ve dreamt in Hebrew, I’ve dreamt in Chinese. I’ve dreamt in French. I’ve dreamt in German. I’ve dreamt in Dutch.

    EK: Whoa, I don’t, what do you, how do you explain that? Like, what do you? 

    SH: But I don’t know, it’s just what it is and it’s you or it’s in the dream, I’m either speaking it or someone else is speaking to me and I understand what they’re saying and then I’ll wake up and I’ll google it and it’s what it is. So, so, yeah, so this happened and I was like, I don’t know this language this isn’t, there’s nothing happening. And so when it finally came out, I looked at a page even though like I’m, I’m having like two experiences at once. I’m sleeping. I know I’m in bed, but I’m also seeing things and I’m hearing things and I’m experiencing things and it says like “I am the messenger of the 3 to 5 to 9.” And then it says it out of my mouth. And when it says it, I do this thing that terrifies my husband where when I’m sleeping, I’ll go “wake me up, wake me up” and he was like, and you say wake me up, I say it to him.

    He um he’s, he’s like had a girlfriend that had like um where she screams in her sleep and he was like, what you do is much, much more terrifying. Whoa So I was like, wake me up and he woke me up and I was like, oh my God, I was like freaking out. I was like, that was crazy. And then I was like, wait a second, I didn’t give them permission to take over my channel. I don’t like this, whatever. And I could feel my hand getting really warm and that’s usually a telling sign that I need to write that somebody wants to write to me. So I wrote it and it was like “you asked for this.” So for three years, I looked up the Camacho which is an Old Hebrew way of looking at the meaning of a number to give it a spiritual context-

    EK: Not numerology?

    SH: not numerology. It’s kind of, but not really. I’ve looked up, I looked up everything. Nothing. I couldn’t find anything. It’s the three, the five, the nine, everything is 369, but I couldn’t find it. 

    EK: So, getting low that came on my workout playlist the other day and I was like

    SH: switch to glutes.

    EK: Booty on the floor, right?

    EH: So, so 359359 have no idea, whatever. Um I started feeling the call of trance work. So I started doing it. I started researching ritual transpositions and like the beats per minute and whatever that induces that and I could in a mental to mental, I could hear them or sense them saying like “open your mouth, open your mouth” and I started to speak and what came out was I am the messenger of the three of the five the nine and I was like, whoa, that was crazy.

    So I did it a couple of times with friends. Um What I can anchor with a group of people right now is about 15 minutes. But the more people in training that I have, I should be able to hit an hour to two. So I was like, I need to do this, I need to get trained correctly and the modality is seeped heavily in England. There’s not really a whole lot of trance in the us, this is evidential mediumship, trance, mediumship, trans healing is all a very British thing.

    EK: So, is there something in Charlottesville? Like a trance, maybe at U VA, maybe not.

    SH: maybe it’s like a psychic. They have like a, it might be spiritualist. There’s one in Richmond, but that’s a little different.

    EK: Um But yeah, so, but you’re going on an exciting adventure.

    SH: So I’m going on this exciting adventure 

    EK: in 12 days

    SH: in 12 days. Oh, yeah, sorry. It just hit me. I was like, oh, and I’m going to learn how to anchor these beings. And um when I come back, the plan is like, I already have a trip booked to Philly. I’m working on L A but to um hold sets in, in, you know, transmit this work.

    EK: It’s kind of like Esther Hicks and Abraham?

    SH:  kind of like that, that, that, that’s so they’re able to do it 2-3 hours, you know, rocking with it, right? And when I worked with, I have a, a trance mentor. Um she was like, where you’re at, what you’re doing. She was like, I do not recommend but she was like with, you know, 5 to 7 people being able to anchor for about 15 minutes, you’re right on par. Like that’s what you can be doing. She’s like, it’s just telling me that you’re not fully developed. So, 

    EK: and that’s to be expected at the beginning of any journey.

    SH: Yeah, totally. So, even though you’ve been in this work for many years and doing adjacent things and all of that. But this is very different. This is, this is a whole new world. So, you know, I’m getting like Ariel and I’m going to get my legs and I’m going to walk through London Town and figure this all out. It’s so cool. Yeah, I’m really excited. I’m really nervous. I’m really scared. But that’s when, you know, you’re on the right path you shouldn’t do. 

    EK: I mean, if something doesn’t scare you, it’s probably not a big enough dream.

    SH: Yeah. So I really feel like this is legacy work. This is what I want to be doing. This is what I asked to be doing from Akashic perspective. Um But yeah, I’m really stoked on it.

    EK: Good for you.

    SH: Thank you.

    EK: So, what are the places in Philly? Like, what’s the place Philly that you’re going to be holding that stuff?

    SH: So I will be at Ritual shop in center city. It’s owned by Angela Monaco. She’s phenomenal. She’s um I’ve known her actually, I tried to get my wedding ring from her, but my husband had a heirloom, but I’ve known her for years and we’ve just kind of always been in the same circles or adjacent and we’ve always vibed. So she has a space and I’m going to facilitate for about 12 people. So the sign ups will be going up soon. That will be February 18th and then I’m still working out the details on L A but I think I’m going to do like three days out in L A of work probably in like April.

    EK: Do you know what spaces in L A you want to be in?

    SH: So I know I’m going to do something at the Gorky and I’m still working on the other places.

    EK: There’s a place called the Mindry in Malibu that might be interested and they have a pretty nice big room that might be a cool place to do it. I’ll reach out, I can connect you with. I know the woman who’s the manager there, Christy if you’re listening.

    SH: Um Cool. Yeah, that’s exciting.

    EK: What about Richmond?

    SH: Richmond on the 14th. So about once a month, I lead journeys at Buffalo Firefly Wellness and I have one coming up January 14th – 

    EK: right before you go?

    SH: right before. Um So that’s like about once a month. I do have courses that I do online. Um So I have exploring the Akasha, which is basically, um if you have an Akashic practice, it’s great for that because what we’re doing is pushing boundaries, pushing imagination, pushing sensory, um kind of blurring the lines of the different dimensions that we work in. But if you have never done the work and you’ve just been interested, it’s kind of, I think of it as like I’m hiring someone with no experience, but like, maybe that’s better because they, they have a really open mind, right.

    So I think it’s, if you’re attracted to it, it’s a great course. It’s a six week course. Um, I am going to start putting out on youtube actually, this Sunday, uh, a journey through the archetypes, which is of the major Oana, which is a akashic kabal stick, look of the major AANA. So every week we’re gonna work through the keys. Obviously, we start with the full and I think it’s a great way to kick off the New Year.

    EK: Um, well, it’s interesting as you said, the three, the five, the nine. I wondered if they were. I looked at it. Yeah, it’s like the empress. It’s number three. I can’t remember. The nine is the hermit hermit. Yeah. Um, five is, no, it’s saying I know the Hebraic wordings to them, but I can’t remember. Well, good thing. You have a whole, I’m just so curious. I’m sorry. Excuse me on the podcast. However, I’m just doing this right now, but I just, when you said it, I was like, I wonder if they all three is the Empress. Five is the Hierophant and nine is the hermit hermit.

    SH: The Hierophant is my favorite.

    EK: She’s a Taurus, isn’t she?

    SH: My sister sign. Yeah. Yeah, that’s really exciting. Cool.

    EK: Well, good. So, um, I will definitely link all of your social media website, these courses all in the show notes. So, you know, making sure that if people that are listening, they want to follow you, take any of your courses? Is there anything else that you’d want people to know about you or anything you’d want to direct them to?

    SH: um, not off the top of my head? Um I think that, I think that if you have had had E MD R on your mind, I think, I think it’s been life changing for me and I couldn’t recommend it more. Um, even with a heavy spiritual practice that I have game changer for sure. And I would highly recommend that you have resources outside of yourself to support you during the process.

    EK: What were some things that you had outside of yourself that you felt like it was instrumental to have during this work? 

    SH: so I think like, considering the kind of trauma that I went through, I kind of struggle being in friendships, I always feel like I’m putting somebody out, you know, I don’t want to bother them and I leaned heavily on my friends and it was really nice to feel safe and supported and loved and I think that that was part of the process for sure.

    EK: And especially with like, depending on the trauma that you’re working through. But yeah, when there’s relational trauma that you’re working through and it’s like the, the, the first and worst memories of those and it’s like, let me go back to the place where I felt worthless and, and like a burden and then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Right. So So, whatever that thing is that you’re working on in E MD R, make sure you have like the equal and opposite thing in your life.

    That proves that that thing isn’t true because that’s a big part of E MD R is like, whatever that negative belief you have with that memory, we’re trying to help install the equal and opposite, positive belief. If your belief is that I’m worthless, I’m not enough. I am worth a lot. I am more than enough. Right. So, um that’s cool that you were able to lean on your friends. And so yeah, that and that was something that you feel like helped bring you through the process successfully. Yeah.

    SH: Yeah. And I think it, it like, I think it was its own exposure therapy on its own, you know, because you have to, you’re just like, I don’t know what to do with all these feelings. I don’t know what to do with this. Am I crazy? And so having somebody there to be like, you’re not crazy. You are awesome. I’ve seen you do this, you know, whatever is like, I mean, who doesn’t want to be loved on? It’s just different when you’re learning that you deserve to be loved on one of the things. 

    EK: Um, and I forget which of the trainers that I’ve like all the different trauma trainings I’ve done and what not. But one of the kind of like sound bites from that was you know, I don’t wanna say it’s Bessel Van Der Kolk but I don’t know, maybe it wasn’t him. Oh No, it was um Dick Schwartz from ifs internal family systems. He says trauma happens in a relationship. So healing from trauma has to happen in a relationship. Like you can’t just heal from trauma in a bubble on your own. You have to be in relationship with other people if that’s where the trauma happens.

    So that’s what I mean, when we look at outcomes for therapy, the most important factor for success is and I know we talked about having an outcome and success and all of that, but I mean, nobody’s going to therapy to just shoot the shit, you know, with this person, you are here for some type of an outcome. Um But the relationship between the client and the therapist is always the number one indicator of whether this is going to be a successful, you know, intervention. And so, yeah, I feel really lucky to have been able to hold this space for you and offer you too. Like I’m just happy that it like resonated so much for you and that you’ve had, I mean, I’m like blown away by all the things you’re doing now. I just think it’s so cool.

    SH:I’m excited and yeah, I, I, like I said, I’m really glad that whatever brought me here, brought me here because it changed my life. Um And it just kind of like again, it just brings me back, right? Like if you want to go fast, you go alone. If you want to go far, you go together. And I think without you, I wouldn’t have been able to be able to bridge this. So everything is relational and I’m super grateful for it.

    EK: Thank you so much. Thank you for being here on the podcast.

    SH: Thanks for having me. It was a great conversation.

    EK: This was so fun.

    End of episode: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode to learn more about Sophia and her work. Please see the show notes. There will be links there for her social media and her uh her courses and um some upcoming events that she has. So please go ahead and make sure you check out those and stay tuned for our next episode. I have so many exciting uh interviews coming up with different Richmond practitioners. So please make sure you stay tuned and I’ll see you next time. Thanks. Bye.

  • Blood + Guts + Star Stuff: Making Sense of Being Human

    Blood + Guts + Star Stuff: Making Sense of Being Human

     

    In this latest episode of “Returning Home: The Podcast,” Elise returns to discuss the juxtaposition between having a powerful human brain and a very fragile human body. She discusses the difficulties she and her clients face in having to be both an animal and a computer all at once. In this episode, Elise tells some anecdotes about her life, and also poses big questions that feel almost too big to answer. You are invited to participate in this conversation by leaving a comment, or find Elise on social media and pose some questions of your own!

    Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

    1. Hear about common struggles in the therapy room.
    2. Feel a sense of connectedness to the conundrum of being a human with big dreams while also having to live with the restraints of a body.
    3. Broaden your thinking around common humanity.

    Resources

    Episode Highlights

    [02:45] A topic that comes up in the therapy room.

    • Balancing having a really powerful human mind inside of a fragile animal body.
    • Elise finds that she and a lot of her clients are deep thinkers who have answers to big problems but other people don’t get it.

    [04:02] Common Humanity and Self Compassion

    • Being a deep thinker and feeler can be overwhelming and lonesome
    • Sometimes it feels like we’re the black sheep sticking out from everyone in our lives
    • Thread of common humanity is helpful when we think on a bigger global scale and the interconnectedness with others across the world.

    [06:30] Finding Community Where You Are

    • Finding people who are likeminded so you don’t feel so alone in your approach

    [07:03] Writing a novel!

    • This concept of “blood and guts and starstuff” came to me in a creative writing class
    • I took a class that uses prompts called “Life in 10 Minutes” to help jumpstart the writing process
    • We had to read what we wrote out loud to the class!
    • Writing helps me to metabolize what is in the ethereal realm into the 3D on the page.

    [09:09] Bringing Art into The World

    • Having a human brain makes art possible
    • All invention is only possible with the power of the human brain
    • Getting feedback on our work can be really scary!
    • We need feedback to improve our ideas

    [10:36] The conundrum of Blood + Guts + Star Stuff

    • Humans are an oxy moron of needing to deal with the mundane and the magical
    • Looking around and seeing the concepts and stories the human mind can take us
    • Reconcile feelings and thoughts
    • In the therapy room, clients recognize that logically they understand one thing about a situation and feel something completely different about it
    • We can’t think our way out of trauma which is maddening

    [12:42] The body isn’t wrong, but the mind isn’t always wrong either

    • The mind can sometime work against our body to make meaning
    • When our body feels a certain way, our mind can write an untrue story about it
    • People are many parts- we don’t have to judge it, it just is

    [15:30] Human Capacity to Make Things We Need

    • Evolution of ideas across the years
    • I tell a story about how I was thinking about this in high school while walking on the board walk
    • Were humans always capable of making the things we have?
    • Technology evolves so fast in the modern day
    • It feels like a huge question to answer

    [17:59] A world full of people who have healed their trauma

    • I think unhealed trauma is why we have war, power struggles and suffering
    • I talked about the novel I want to write
    • What if we lived in a world where everyone could live out their true potential?

    [20:56] Closing Thoughts

    • If you have something to add, find me on social media and start the conversation with me there.
    • I have interviews lined up with Richmond practitioners, so stay tuned
    • If there is anything you want to hear about from me on the podcast? Let me know!

    Enjoyed this Episode?

    If you enjoyed this podcast, please make sure to subscribe and share it!

    Leave an episode review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in to this episode, don’t forget to leave us a review. You can also share what you’ve learned today with your friends to help them embody their true, authentic selves. Anything is possible when you return home to yourself. 

    Have any questions or lightbulb moments? I’d love to hear from you! Feel free to hit me up on Instagram or send an email at elise@elisekindya.com. 

    Thank you so much for listening! For more episode updates, visit my website.

    Audio transcript:

    (02:25):

    Welcome back to Returning Home, the podcast. My name is Elise Kindya and I’m your host. And today I want to talk about a topic that comes up a lot in my work in the therapy room as well as just in my own brain.

    And that is how it’s so difficult to have a human brain that is living inside of an animal body and what we can do about that, how to be okay with life when you know that there’s more to life or you have these thoughts that bring you to the edge. It almost feels like the edges of the earth, the edges of the universe, or even down into more basic issues that are here on planet Earth. But they seem so obvious, and yet people have such a hard time getting what you’re saying.

    (03:31)
    And yeah, this happens to me a lot because I like to think things all the way to the end, all the way through what could be the solution to this problem. And then I look around at the world around me and I’m like, I don’t think other people get it.

    I don’t think that they’re seeing what I’m seeing or feeling what I’m feeling. And I guess one piece of that is when I just said that what came to mind was that concept of common humanity, that the practice of self-compassion has us think about that a lot of times that the experience we’re having is something that other people also seem to be having.

    (04:22)
    But a lot of times, in my experience, not everybody is thinking about it as deeply maybe, or feels as deeply about it as maybe I do. And I see that with my clients a lot too. They feel that they’re really sensitive, they feel things deeply. They’ve thought about the issue or topic that they’re coming to therapy about pretty deeply. And it seems like the other people in their lives don’t get it. And yeah, it can be really frustrating.

    It can feel really lonesome. It can feel like you’re the black sheep just sticking out like a sore thumb among all of the other people in your life and that you care about things differently than they do, or you care about different things. But I think that there is this thread of common humanity, even if the people that directly in your life aren’t getting it, there are definitely people out there that do get it.

    (05:30)
    And this is what’s so interesting about living at this time, because we have the internet, we have podcasts, we have social media, we have lots of ways that we can connect to other people in other countries on the other side of the world that maybe are thinking about things differently than just the people in our immediate circle.

    And this is what I mean when it’s like, oh, we have this human computer in our brain, but we have these very 3D animal bodies that are dense and they have to occupy the space and time that they’re in. You can’t just you in Harry Potter app operate to someplace that somebody maybe that you have more in common with is that you can go be with them. But we are fortunate in this time that we have ways to connect the internet chat rooms like Instagram, TikTok, and other ways that we find to do that.

    (06:35)
    Being in community in our yoga studios or our meditation classes or our churches, if you’re into that or places we gather in real life to be around people that are maybe more like-minded to us. Yeah. But this concept kind of was coming to me because I’m taking a writing class right now, a creative writing class where I have an idea for a novel that I want to write, which feels very big, overwhelming, daunting, all those things. I just finished the six week writing course, which I didn’t really focus on the novel so much a little bit.

    And I definitely got some good feedback and things to think about. But a lot of it was actually, if you’re from Richmond, and I don’t know how big of a thing this is nationwide or internationally, I have no idea, but there was a program here in Richmond called Life in 10 Minutes where you’re given these prompts or things to topics to write on or prompts to get you going with your writing for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and then you read what you wrote out loud.

    (07:58)
    When she told us that in the first class, I was like, oh, what? But it became easier after doing it even just once. But I was writing something in that class. And this, again, I’m thinking and talking about these things daily with my clients, but I have to metabolize it for myself, which I think writing is such a great way to take what’s in that human computer in your mind and that space that occupies around your mind, all those thoughts, wherever they’re swirling around, it’s a way to really ground down and channel that in 3D.

    When you can take those concepts and ideas and they travel through your arm and through your hand and through the pen and onto the paper is a really powerful thing. Or maybe they go through your fingers onto the keyboard, onto the blank screen on your computer, however you do that expression, and really in any art form as a way to take whatever is kind of ethereal or in the ether and bring it down into the 3D, which is a gift that we have as humans being able to conceive of these things.

    (09:13)
    Even this computer I’m talking at or the headphones I’m wearing, or the box of tissues or the cup or the phone, the notepad and the pen and the paper and the light and the light switch and electricity and the running water in the building I’m in, and the heat coming on. All of that isn’t possible without the human brain. So that’s a pretty cool thing that we can take what is just a concept or an idea and find ways to bring it down into the 3D, make something out of it and get feedback about it too, which can be really scary.

    And one of the things I always say is why I could never have gone to art school because I don’t want to hear what people have to say about my art or I, it would’ve been really difficult for me to be critiqued in public like that. But yeah, we need that right, to be able to get better and to be able to refine, to be able to improve upon that idea.

    (10:23)
    But yeah, I had written this phrase of blood and guts and star stuff. That’s what humans are made of and how that can just be so, such a conundrum, such a oxymoron or just opposite ends of the spectrum, something so basic. And again, 3D grounded as blood and our guts and what’s inside of this meat suit that we have to carry around with us to the opposite end of being able to conceptualize anything.

    If you go, I mean, blockbuster’s not a thing anymore, but going into a library, going into a video store, going into any store, or just walking down the street and seeing all the concepts that people have come up with those storylines, the places that art can take us, the places that the human mind can take us is frankly just wild. It can be so overwhelming.

    (11:40)
    And then to have to ground that down into our bodies and reconcile with that in our feeling state is, I’m sure as you’re listening to that, you’re like, yeah, wow, that difficult, I just hear this so much in my office of whether it’s somebody that’s gone through a traumatic thing or someone is in my office saying, logically I understand this or that about this situation, but in my body I feel something else.

    And how difficult that is for people to not be able to think their way out of their trauma, their emotional reactions, their bodies normal and natural response to thinking that something is very wrong. Your body isn’t wrong, but your mind also isn’t necessarily wrong. I mean, sure don’t believe everything you think. And again, when you look at art that isn’t necessarily truth or real, it’s like someone’s idea, but why isn’t it real? It’s something somebody conceived of or thought about, but the body, I was going to say, the body doesn’t lie. And it doesn’t lie, but our minds can work against our body to make things mean a certain thing that they don’t actually mean.

    (13:19)
    We feel a certain thing in our body, and then our mind jumps to, oh, this must be happening when that’s not necessarily the case. So yeah, it’s so frustrating to have to be blood and guts and star stuff inside of this meat suit with this computer in our mind with we’re so many things as people, we’re so many different parts. And is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? It just is, you are here living this life. If you’re listening to this podcast, you’re a human, if you’re making sense of what I’m saying, if you understand the words I’m saying, this is just what it is.

    So I like to say that to clients too, where they’re like, well, I don’t want to be judgmental, but this is bad. Or, well, I think this is bad, but I don’t want to be judgmental. I want to think it’s good. Well, if you’re saying it’s good, you’re still making a judgment. You’re not saying anything neutral. Judgmental has gotten such a bad rap. But anyway, we are going to do that as people. That’s part of how we are composed, part of how we’re made up, how we see the world. We have to make judgements whether we’re judging something as good or bad.

    (14:42)
    But yeah, this is just what it is. You are a person, and I dunno if you can relate to this or not. Let me know if you can, because sometimes, again, with this common humanity thing, I’ll say things like that. And then people are like, well, yeah, duh. And I’m like, oh, okay. Well, I guess what I’m thinking is really out there, but then I think some other people do get what I’m saying or can relate to what I’m saying.

    So that’s why I’m putting this out here right now. But yeah, it’s having to show up every day and do the human things when you just want to astral project or app operate somewhere. I remember this one time, and this was in high school when I was probably smoking a lot of weed, but I remember saying something to my dad, we were walking on the boardwalk in Long Branch, New Jersey, and I said something where I was like, I don’t get why as people, why has there had to be this evolution of these ideas?

    (15:58)
    If people are people, whether they were born a thousand years ago or today, why didn’t they just know that they needed to drive cars and make cars happen? And he was like, what kind of question is that? But it’s like we were always, I wonder if we were always capable of that in our past, and we just needed each person that was an inventor to invent the next thing that got improved upon and improved upon over generations and over years.

    And now technology just comes out so fast. I have this iPhone that if this had been my first phone in high school, I would’ve been like, whoa, this is a little computer in my pocket. And now it’s very outdated. It’s probably like an iPhone XR or something. And what are they up to now? Like 15?

    (16:57)
    Yeah, but I don’t know. This is going somewhere, the human ability of humans to continuously come out with new things. But were these concepts that humans of many generations ago could have thought of, what is human capacity and capability if we have all of this now, was it not possible before or did we need all the trials and tribulations and the trial and error of the hundreds of years in between?

    And I don’t know that I’m definitely not going to answer that question right now, but it’s just a question that comes up for me sometimes. And in my novel that I want to write is about healing trauma, because I feel like we keep taking one step forward, two steps back right now with this war going on in Gaza and Palestine and is Israel and everything, why we all just sit there? Why is that happening and resources and money and power and all of that stuff. And unhealed trauma is why that’s happening to me in my opinion.

    (18:19)
    And I just want to live at a time when everybody has to heal at the same time. There’s no option. And what could be possible if everybody was equal and if everybody had healed their trauma and if everybody was operating at a healthy, emotionally mature, social emotional learning was happening for children and adults that didn’t get it, what could actually be possible for everybody if that was the world we were living in?

    Because yeah, every single person I think has the capacity and capability to, I mean, we could always be doing more, but what would life be like if everybody had the chance and the opportunity to actually live their potential? That’s a world that I’m interested in seeing. And maybe as my teenage self that like to smoke weeded in high school, maybe that’s what I was asking my dad about all those years ago.

    (19:35)
    Why weren’t people able to do all that stuff back then? And maybe it was, yeah, because of resources and blah, blah, blah, but because they didn’t have the capacity yet to maybe know about that, but also there was so much other, just being able to survive and feed yourself and all of that, taking care of those survival basic needs, overtook and currently overtakes people’s ability to dream and to think bigger and to create and invent and solve problems.

    And how then do we, if that were possible for people, then how would that look as far as being a human in this human body, but with this computer that is running or supposedly running the show in our head, although the body talks up to the brain 80% of the time, we stay grounded a lot, but the mind does tend to take over, doesn’t it?

    (20:49)
    And if we had the freedom to do that, what could be possible? So those are just some things I’m thinking about and wanted to put it out there in this more long form just kind of, I mean, I want this to be a conversation. If you have something to add to this, I would love for you to leave me a review with a question or you could email me or you could find me on Instagram and start this conversation with me there. But I just find this to be fascinating and interesting. But yeah, that’s just kind of the topic I wanted to talk about today.

    And hopefully I’ll be coming back on more onto the podcast. I’ve kind of lined up some interviews that I’m going to do soon, and I want to hear from you all what you want to hear from me, because I could mean, as we heard on this one. I could just talk about stuff, but I want to talk about what people want to hear about. Yeah. So let me know whether you find me on Instagram or send me an email, go to my website and all this will be linked down in the show notes. But yeah, hope to continue this conversation with you at another time. And thank you so much for listening today, and I’ll talk to you soon. Bye.